Debate RAGE QUIT/She Is SUING?! 150 IQ Ivy League Feminist vs. Andrew Wilson | Whatever Debates #19
Date: 2025-05-18
Duration: 3h 39m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00Kylie Brewer(guest)
SPEAKER_04Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_07Brian Atlas(host)
Key Moments
00:00:00
IntroBrian introduces debate: Andrew Wilson vs Kylie Brewer (Brown University, claimed IQ ~150)
00:13:30
ControversyKylie walks away after Andrew says 'you don't have your TikTok mute button, sweetheart'
00:59:25
Key MomentAndrew presents Force Doctrine. Kylie concedes: 'Currently in the patriarchal society, yes [women appeal to men for safety].'
01:24:45
QuoteKylie claims IQ approximately 150
02:23:00
Key MomentKylie concedes pillar 2 of feminism 'is not really about choice' when tested with gun rights
02:29:00
OtherRAGE QUIT: Kylie leaves permanently. Brian offers double fee. Andrew holds up 'I WIN' notepad.
Topics Discussed
00:00:00
Opening Statements
Kylie cites wage gap, WHO violence stats. Andrew attacks McKenzie study replication failure.
00:13:30
First Walkout Threat
Kylie walks away after Andrew says 'you don't have your TikTok mute button, sweetheart.'
00:19:00
DV and SA Statistics
Contested stats: WHO 1-in-3 vs NIS showing 68% maltreated children harmed by females.
00:59:25
Force Doctrine
Andrew's Force Doctrine: women's rights derive from men's physical supremacy. Kylie concedes women appeal to men for safety.
02:10:00
Four Pillars of Feminism
Kylie presents 4 feminist pillars. Andrew debunks pillar 2 (expand choice) using gun rights contradiction.
02:29:00
Final Rage Quit
Kylie leaves permanently. Brian offers double fee. She says she'd cry for triple. Andrew holds up 'I WIN' notepad.
02:36:55
Post-Debate Commentary
Brian and Andrew analyze the rage quit. Book recommendations. Champagne for $1K donation.
Transcript
Page 1 of 4
00:00:10
Brian AtlasWelcome to a debate edition of the Whatever podcast. We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California. I'm your host and moderator, Brian Atlas. Few quick announcements before the show begins. This podcast is viewer supported
00:00:22
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00:00:36
Brian Atlasare made via Streamlabs. To read a message is $99 and up. We're going to read those in batches at various breaks throughout the debate. There will be no instant TTS. Now, if you want to just
00:00:47
Brian Atlastip and have 100% of your contribution go towards us, no platform fees, no cut, you can via Venmo or Cash App. That's whatever pod on both links in the description. We're also live on Twitch right now. Pull up another tab. Go to
00:00:59
Brian Atlastwitch.tv whatever. Drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one. Without further ado, I will introduce our two guests. I'm joined today by Andrew Wilson, host of The Crucible. He's a
00:01:11
Brian Atlasblood sports debater and political commentator. Also joining us today is Kylie Brewer. She's an author, content creator, and educator. She received
00:01:22
Brian Atlasbachelor degrees in psychology and creative writing from Ivy League School, Brown University. She plans to pursue a graduate degree in public policy. She's
00:01:32
Brian Atlasalso a self-described leftist, feminist, anti-racist, LGBTQ activist. The topic today is feminism. You will each have up to a uh 10-minute opening statement. And
00:01:45
Brian Atlasthen the rest of the show will just be open conversation with some prompt changes and breaks for messages from the audience followed by each of you having a closing statement. Kylie, you're going
00:01:57
Kylie Brewerto go first. Go ahead. Okay. Thank you. Um, hi, my name is Kylie. I just wanted to start by saying a little bit about what I stand for, which is just feminism generally. And I would want to say that
00:02:08
Kylie Brewerfeminism is a crucial movement both in the United States and across the world. Feminism is defined as advocating for gender equality and challenging the structures of power that perpetuate
00:02:20
Kylie Brewerdiscrimination and violence against women. It is not an attack on men. Rather, it is a call for an equal and just society. In the US, despite progress, women face
00:02:31
Kylie Brewersystemic inequalities, which means that gender inequality is rooted in many of the systems that we see today. For instance, women in the US earn 82 cents
00:02:41
Kylie Brewerfor every dollar that a man makes and black women earn just 63 cents. So, there are three reasons potentially that this could be the case, which is I would say that we do not value female labor
00:02:53
Kylie Brewerenough in this country. And there's a phenomenon called male flight which is typically when a field becomes very female dominated 50 to 60% women men typically begin to leave that field and the pay rate for women drops. So that
00:03:07
Kylie Brewermight be some sort of implicit phenomenon happening as well as domestic labor is unpaid which is when women typically take on more of the child rearing in homes and obviously that is
00:03:17
Kylie Brewernot something that is compensated. And for women who do go to work and raise kids, there's inadequate child support, meaning they often miss out on we often miss out on promotions or other major um
00:03:30
Kylie Breweropportunities in the career because we are not supported in that way. So this all could explain that economic inequality. Which brings me to according to the World Economic Forum, it's going to take roughly 300 years to close the
00:03:42
Kylie Brewergender gap for both economic and political empowerment for women. In countries like Afghanistan, women still battle for access to education and health care as well as personal freedoms. In some places, if they open
00:03:53
Kylie Brewerthe door without being covered, they may be beaten or arrested. Which brings me to this. The home is the most dangerous place for women. According to the United Nations, the home, the place where we
00:04:05
Kylie Brewershould all feel safe. Six women are killed every hour around the world by people they know. Now, here are some other very depressing statistics. One in three women experience violence at the
00:04:17
Kylie Brewerhands of a man in their lifetime, whether that's physical or SA. And that's according to the World Health Organization. 50% of women who were unalived in 2017 were killed by an intimate partner violence. It's
00:04:29
Kylie Breweraccording to the United Nations. 650 million women were married before the age of 18. This is according to UNICEF, meaning they became child brides, often against their will. Now the final
00:04:40
Kylie Brewerstatistic is that 71% of human trafficking victims are women and girls. This is not to negate the importance of male victims and standing up for their rights as well. Just to point out a general pattern in the fact that women
00:04:51
Kylie Brewerare typically um overlooked as well as over represented in victim being victims of crimes. Now, there's also a general tendency to blame women for our oppression. That we make less because our work is less
00:05:03
Kylie Brewerimportant, or because we choose to work in fields that don't pay as much money, or that we were essayed because of the clothes we were wearing, or that we were unalived because we chose to marry the wrong man. But none of these things are true, and they are rooted in really
00:05:16
Kylie Brewerharmful misconceptions about what the feminist movement stands for. I'm sure you all are also expecting me to be very angry today. And I hope that I won't be. But I'm truly interested in furthering the feminist cause and promoting equality, even if it means sometimes
00:05:29
Kylie Brewertalking to people who don't agree with me. Um, and finally, I just would like to say that men can be feminists and they're very important for the feminist movement for seeking equal rights um
00:05:39
Kylie Breweraround the world. And um we strive to combat hate, not promote it, for equal rights for all. And by definition, feminism is about the belief in social,
00:05:49
Kylie Brewereconomic, and political equality of the sexes, not about female supremacy or anything like that. And I hope to debunk some of the myths that people think about feminists today and show that it
00:05:59
Brian Atlasis very important cause, not just globally, but in the US and in the West. Thank you. All right, Kylie, thank you very much for your opening statement. Uh
00:06:10
Andrew WilsonAndrew, if you'd like to give yours now. Yeah. Um just a second. Let me back up here. One thing I wanted to address right in my opening. I've been going through Kylie's
00:06:20
Andrew Wilsonvideos and she knows so much which is not. So this is a big bait and switch. This happens often. I think I pointed this out to the whatever podcast many times especially when it comes to
00:06:31
Andrew Wilsonsociology and psychology. How often they are wrong. And here's how they're wrong. Most often what they do is they take studies which are recently published. They point to those data sets and say because this is right now the most
00:06:44
Andrew Wilsoncurrent data set we have it's true and then operate as though those things are in reality true when they're not. Kinsey says for instance on gender quotas according to and she she cites this and
00:06:57
Andrew Wilsonmany feminists site this are you talking about the the Kinsey study? Yeah. Yeah. The Kinsey study which you cite right and most feminists site the Kinsey study
00:07:08
Andrew Wilsonum has been debunked for years. I don't know where why why feminist Hang on. It's my opening statement. You'll have a chance to cross-examine him. Just allow him to let me let me walk you through
00:07:19
Andrew Wilsonthis. Earlier this week, journalist Christopher Brunette flagged a paper in a March 2024 issue of Econ Journal Watch, a bannual publication edited by George Mason economist Daniel Klene that
00:07:30
Andrew Wilsonpublishes, articles, lengths, responses to other economist errors. The paper written by accounting professor Jeremiah Green of Texas A&M and John RM Hand of the University of North Carolina addressed the first of three McKenzie
00:07:42
Andrew Wilsonfour installment series of diversity studies. Green and Hand sought to test the replicability of McKenzie's findings. Guess what they found, guys? Could another set of researchers using
00:07:54
Andrew Wilsonthe same data come to the same conclusions? Since uh McKenzie refused to turn over its numbers, Green and Hand had to reverse engineer the firm's 2015,
00:08:05
Andrew Wilson18, and 20 data sets. The results were startling. Green in hand couldn't replicate the results of McKenzie's first three studies, which monitored the profitability of executive demographics of an undisclosed group of S&P 500 firms
00:08:19
Andrew Wilsonclaiming to have found a positive correlation between diverse leadership and the firm's performance. We do not find a statistical significant positive correlation between
00:08:30
Andrew Wilsonum McKenzie's measures of the racial ethnic diversity of executive terms of firms as measured in December 2019 green and hand reported and either the likelihood of financial outperformance
00:08:41
Andrew Wilsonin 1519. So to give you a quick summary, the study seems to show it's most likely correlation and not causation, meaning companies were already doing very financially well. Uh and they have the
00:08:53
Andrew Wilsonluxury to mess around with diversity quotas and initiatives. In addition, the data from the 2024 paper was unable to replicate any of the older McKenzie studies, any of
00:09:03
Andrew Wilsonthem. That should uh tell you something. So that's a very recent data set, right? Why don't any of the psychologists ever go with the recent data set? Well, the reason they don't go with it is because
00:09:16
Andrew Wilsonit doesn't affirm their nonsensical worldviews. That's why they don't go with them ever. You'll find this very common in sociology and in psychology which suffer from the replication crisis. Somewhere around
00:09:27
Andrew Wilson60% of their findings cannot be replicated are not to be trusted. Psychology is the study of the mind. The scientific views of psychology are only
00:09:36
Andrew Wilsondone through data collection. But it has to be interpreted. This is a major major problem. So many feminists will tell you so many studies and luckily I have all
00:09:47
Andrew Wilsonof the ones to refute all of all of my opponent's studies today because what happens is they have a biased worldview and they want the data set to correlate
00:09:57
Andrew Wilsonwith the worldview rather than wanting to tell you what the actual truth is. The truth is is that a bunch of S&P 500 companies who are very rich were already doing really well. And for the purposes
00:10:09
Andrew Wilsonof publicity, they decided that they were going to start doing a bunch of DEI hires and ethnic hires and this type of thing. And they decided that the correlation co they made it the correlation causation error. That's it.
00:10:21
Andrew WilsonYou'll find this over and over again, I'm sure, as we go through this debate, as we go through the numbers, especially when it comes to the abuse of women, especially when it comes to just how useful women are. We talk about
00:10:32
Andrew Wilsondomesticated labor labor. What a joke. You believe that women should be paid some type of domestic wage. However, it's skilled labor in the home which keeps the home running. It's always going to be paid way more than domestic
00:10:43
Andrew Wilsonlabor because it's more worthwhile than domestic labor. Simple. So, with that, I'll finish my opening statement. I can't wait to dive right into this.
00:10:52
Kylie BrewerOkay. Uh, so Kylie, it sounded like you maybe had some uh some push back you wanted to give on something Andrew said there. Yeah, so I
00:11:03
Kylie Brewerum very briefly referenced the McKenzie study and Mackenzie and company's women in the workplace study by the way is what he's referring to. But um it's actually if you go and look it up, it's generally considered accurate and comprehensive in its findings. So, I have quite literally no idea what my
00:11:16
Kylie Breweropponent is talking about. As well as the fact that this is a red herring fallacy of just, oh, this is wrong and my opponent is wrong for the following reasons. How's that a red herring? Because you're not actually acknowledging any of the information that I said. I refuted the information.
00:11:29
Andrew WilsonI didn't even talk about that. I have reputations to your video. I have your video right here. And you start by saying the largest comprehensive study, the Kinsey study. Which one are you talking about? I'll play it for you.
00:11:41
Kylie BrewerGive me a second here. Okay. Well, um I think we should stick to what we're talking about today. Um and I just Well, we're talking about all of this today. So, the Okay. Well, I would like you to be less hostile to me first of all because I think we should just have a
00:11:54
Kylie Brewergeneral discussion. Stop whining. We're doing a debate. Stop whining. So, um I'm not going to give you the reaction that I know you're looking for. Yeah. So, women are better leaders than most. You agree? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was looking at that video. Yeah. There. I mean, that's like one of the ones that
00:12:07
Kylie BrewerCan you cite which study you Oh, yeah. The one that I'm talking about now, but I didn't reference that in my opening at all. So, I think the people in the audience, if they had any sort of common sense following along, they'd be like, "What is he talking about? Kylie didn't mention that." Which I didn't. But the
00:12:18
Andrew Wilsonthing is is like this is a a current core part of your worldview and belief and you make propaganda videos about it, even though it's completely uninformed that women are better leaders. I think that is a subjective opinion. None of the statistics and facts that I gave
00:12:30
Kylie Brewerpreviously are objective opinions. Like the fact that women didn't have the right to vote until 1920, women couldn't open a bank account in the United States till 197. When did men get the right to vote? Okay, I know this exa is exactly what you were talking about. This is what
00:12:43
Kylie Breweryou're known for is like getting people on a technicality that we don't historically know. But the answer to that is no. The answer to that is The answer is that's no. No. The answer to that is the fact that in 1920 everyone was given the right to vote, but there
00:12:56
Kylie Brewerwere still um barriers to vote for people of color. When did men get the right to vote? The the right to vote was guaranteed to all people in 1920 according to the 1920. Yeah. Before 1920, were men were all men allowed to vote? No. Okay, great. They weren't.
00:13:08
Andrew WilsonThen when even when men supremacy and because our system was not founded equally. Are you aware that men only got any rights to vote about a decade roughly before women? That is not true. Men have been making
00:13:21
Kylie Brewerthe founding fathers were all men. So I have no idea what you're talking about. What does it have to do with the right to vote? The right to vote was historically withheld from men of color. It was a white also with the general population. Do not cut me off. Do not cut me off. I'm in the middle of speaking. I don't care if you're in the
00:13:34
Brian Atlasmiddle of speaking. You're in the middle of a debate. The right to to vote. You don't have your Tik Tok mute button, sweetheart. I will not be speaking anymore until you have a conversation with him. Well,
00:13:44
Brian Atlaslook, if you can if we can uh for for both people, if we can allow each other to finish uh even if you want to jump in, just let the other person finish
00:13:56
Brian Atlasspeaking. If somebody's going on a uh monologue and they're filibustering, I'll try to get them to wrap up, but just if they're making a point, just try to let them finish. No, I did not go to
00:14:07
Kylie Brewerschool for 4 years and build a platform to be talked to like this. So, I will be walking away from the microphone right now and I would encourage you to get your guest under control. I'm going to take two minutes so you can ask him questions if you'd like and I will be
00:14:19
Andrew Wilsonright back. I just won't be back. And I don't give a [ __ ] What do I care? I'm here to have a debate and I listen to your whining. Do you want to have a debate or not? All right. I I'm not going to be talked to
00:14:31
Brian Atlaslike this. So, do you want Do you want to just take a little two-minute breather? You want to take a two-minute breather? This is feminism. You're the strong woman. You're the strong woman.
00:14:43
SPEAKER_03Really? Strong woman. I will not be talked to. Like what? What did I even say? Um, you know, I would uh I will not be talked to like that.
00:14:55
Andrew WilsonYeah, you will. What are you talking about? What are you It's a debate. Maybe we'll we we can try to stick to there's been some really strong feminist
00:15:06
Brian Atlaswomen in that chair who have debated with me. Just not this one. Yeah. Um although I think maybe for the the
00:15:15
Brian Atlassake of the ensuring that the debate happens. Uh maybe we can just so we get the debate so the
00:15:26
Andrew Wilsondebate happens. You know, maybe Well, what what am I supposed to do? I'm in the middle of a debate. Am I supposed am I supposed to worry about tone policing and this and that because I have points and
00:15:37
Brian Atlasreputations which may hurt people's feelings. Well, I I think she overreacted a little bit, but I think it is fair to allow
00:15:48
Brian Atlasuh then if she's in the middle of uh time it. Give us 60 seconds a piece. Uh yeah, we could do that. Yeah, I'll I'll propose that to her. Just do 60 seconds. But I mean, I'm I'm fine with keeping it
00:15:59
Brian Atlasopen, but just if if you're talking, I'll and she interrupts you, I'll tell her not to. Mhm. But if you can, just try to let her uh finish. Yeah. But when they when when anybody does the [ __ ] of like I'm speaking, then you know what
00:16:12
Brian AtlasI mean? Of course, there's going to be some Yeah. But try to try to let her finish if you can. But yeah, let's do 60-second back and forth. That's fine with me. As long as there's some boundaries. Yeah. You want to do that? 60 seconds back and forth. That works. Or if you guys want, we could give it
00:16:26
Brian Atlasanother shot at just keeping it open combo. Um, sure. Why don't we do that? If it if it the interruptions continue, you guys feel like you're not I would like to just point out that Wait, wait, wait. We have to set the rules first. No
00:16:37
Kylie Brewermore talking. Yes, we will do 60 seconds. Supposed to be talked to like that though, right? No. 60 seconds back and forth. I Well, I will leave. I'm so serious. We sign an agreement. If I appear, you can leave. I don't care. Why do you think I care if you [ __ ] I'm
00:16:48
Kylie Brewernot talking to you. Hold on. I'm not talking to you. I'm talking What's your What's Go ahead. What's your proposal? My proposal, if we don't do 60 seconds back and forth, I will walk out right now. The agreement was that I appear. It does not say that I have to stay for 3
00:16:59
Kylie Brewerhours. So, I will leave right now because I'm not going to be talked to like this. I mean, like what? What? Real men. A real You're going to tell me what a real man is? Well, Andrew, real women
00:17:11
SPEAKER_03don't abort their children, lady. My dad has the same political beliefs as you, and he would never talk to a woman. My sister has the same political beliefs as you, and she would never dare talk to a man like that. Like, what's your point? That makes no sense. Andrew, can you
00:17:22
SPEAKER_03stop? Andrew, that's really further. Oh god, if everything's disrespectful. Andrew, stop. Stop. You're such a crybaby. Andrew, stop. In furtherance of
00:17:32
Brian Atlasensuring that this debate actually occurs, let's set some ground rules. We got to allow people to finish their points. And uh Andrew, maybe you've said some mocking things towards her. I have
00:17:45
Kylie Brewersaid no. I have not mocked him at all. No, no, no. I have stood up for myself and I will not be mocked. I have not said a word that is bad to you. I talked to you about your family in Michigan. I want to get to know you. This isn't about anything about me mocking you.
00:17:57
Brian AtlasThis is a boundary of get to know you. I'm here to do a debate. Look, when you return to the table, uh you did the the tone your tone wasn't the best towards Andrew. And look look on hold on hold
00:18:10
Brian Atlason. I'll be fair. Hold on, Kylie. I'll be fair. Andrew's tone towards you wasn't great either. in furtherance of ensuring that the debate actually
00:18:19
Brian Atlasoccurs, why don't we just get back to it and stick to the uh the substance of the conversation. I'm trying to be fair to both of you, but 60 seconds each. Yeah. No interruptions. Andrew, if you if
00:18:31
Brian Atlasyou're fine with that, then I'm fine with that. So, we'll and if you guys are open to it, if if that goes well, the 60 seconds each, we can bring it back to open conversation. Well, there does have to be some cross-examination at some point, but yeah, that's fine. Sure.
00:18:44
Kylie BrewerOkay. So, Kylie, go ahead. You have uh 60 seconds. Okay. So, the point of my conversation here is I would genuinely like to have an open discussion about like what feminism means and to debunk some of the feminist myths, but my opponent seems to want to attack me
00:18:58
Kylie Brewerinstead and call me names, which is totally okay. I'm used to that. Um especially if you look at my comments online. But the point being, I'm going to try my best to keep it very mellow. Again, if I'm being attacked, I am going to get defensive. But I would like to
00:19:09
Kylie Brewerstart by saying yes, the Mackenzie study so in sociology, psychology studies are flawed and that is true. Um, they are continually it's a field that's expanding and that's why I chose to study psychology because I do find it so
00:19:20
Kylie Brewerinteresting. But that doesn't negate the fact that plenty of studies have found a significant correlation between being a woman and being a victim of violence at the hands of a man. And again, the study of one in three women globally who experience sexual or physical violence.
00:19:32
Kylie BrewerAnd I think that is the core of what a lot of feminists believe in is trying to combat that violent behavior and to protect women. I'm sure that's close to a minute, so I can pass it over. Yeah. So, feminism has completely lied to
00:19:44
Andrew Wilsoneverybody. And I'll explain exactly how. It failed in its promise. Its promise was that it was supposed to protect women. It hasn't protected women. The very idea that you want to put women inside of of male workforces is not
00:19:56
Andrew Wilsonprotecting women. The idea that you want to have dual colleges where it's men and women together is not protecting women. These are terrible ideas and they've been borne out as being terrible ideas. When you talk about sociological studies
00:20:08
Andrew Wilsonbeing flawed, I don't think that you're really being honest about how flawed they are. The replication crisis in sociology is getting worse, not better. It's not getting better. Even with all the meta analysis, it's not getting
00:20:20
Andrew Wilsonbetter. Why isn't it getting better? It's because of bias. There's so much bias which is going on, especially from the the purview of feminists. And feminists use standpoint theory. They want everything to go through the view
00:20:31
Andrew Wilsonof women. So when you're talking about for instance the criteria when you're talking about uh what that means that women are assaulted right what what is the criteria for that for what an
00:20:44
Kylie Brewerassault actually is? That's a really good question. Um it it there are definitely we are definitely working on um defining the lines for that. So right now there's an acronym that we are coming up with that we want to teach in
00:20:54
Kylie Brewerschools of like what that means which is um fry. So freely given, reversible, informed, enthusiastic or engaged in specific of what consent means. So that
00:21:04
Kylie Brewerthere is no confusion about what is happening in terms of, you know, like whether it's an assault because I know that does happen where men are confused and they don't know and especially if
00:21:14
Kylie Brewerthere's alcohol involved. And so my goal is to protect women and also to make sure that men know that if they are causing harm that I mean a lot of men, they don't want to hurt other people. They don't realize it. And so I think if
00:21:26
Kylie Brewerwe have better education about like what assault is and how to prevent it because again there are male victims. So I think if it's something that we can come forward about and make sure that everyone feels heard and supported then men would also come forward more about
00:21:40
Andrew Wilsonlike if they've been assaulted. This doesn't answer my question though. My question is when you cite the data on how many of these women have actually been assaulted, what is the criteria being used? Um that's a good question. I see your point of how it varies like
00:21:53
Kylie Brewerbased upon the study and things like that. But um I think uh a lot of these problem is that it is self-reported. But again another issue is that that means they could be under reportported as well because you know women are too scared to
00:22:05
Kylie Brewerreport it. Um so yes there are issues with that. Um but another thing though is that women are definitely in a position um in the home where they are not safe in a lot of places. And again that comes back to the um kind of assumption that I was talking about
00:22:18
Kylie Brewerearlier is that like it's because we married the wrong man and you know this guy is unsafe in our home. But it's not about that. Sometimes when you you marry somebody or you date somebody, they can then become violent towards you um because they see you as their property
00:22:30
Andrew Wilsonalmost. Most of these domestic violence claims and things like this are happening from single mothers with boyfriends though, not happening from the father at home relationships. Yes, I do. Okay. No, I I'm just wondering
00:22:40
Andrew Wilsonbecause um yeah, not only not only is that factually the case, but interestingly enough, if the state seizes custody of a child inside of an abusive home, the child's actually more likely at the hands of the state to die
00:22:54
Andrew Wilsonthan they are in the hands of the abusive home, which is insane, but true, I think. Now, let me give you the studies that you're talking about here. Okay. Um I So, okay. Are are these the
00:23:05
Andrew Wilsonstudies about which claims that you said? Yeah. So here we're going to start with the national incident study NIS. It's the largest collection of all types reporting data relating to abuse and m
00:23:15
Andrew Wilsonmalreatment of children. Okay. 68% of malreated children were maltreated by a female whereas 48% were maltreated by a male. Some children were maltreated by both. Of children maltreated by
00:23:28
Andrew Wilsonbiological parents. Mothers maltreated the majority 75% were fathers maltreated a sizable majority 43%. In contrast, male perpetrators were more common for
00:23:36
Andrew Wilsonchildren maltreated by non-biological parents or parents partners, 64% or 75%. Safest place you can possibly be in the home is with your husband and with your
00:23:47
Andrew Wilsonchildren. That that's for women. The safest place they can be. Any study that you pull up is going to be drawing from the NIS source. That's direct from the NIS itself. There's no refuting that.
00:23:59
Andrew WilsonI've looked and looked and looked. It is definitely from partner incident violence. women are the safest when they have a husband in the home. I think for some women that is the case. I think there are good men out there and I think
00:24:10
Kylie Brewerthat's a misconception that feminists don't believe in and that there are good men that we hate all men which definitely isn't true. But I would like to say like because you're saying you know psychology is an evolving field. There are different studies and different numbers male perpetrators are predominant and while the exact
00:24:23
Kylie Brewerpercentage differs it's generally estimated that between 75 and 90% of child sexual abuse is committed by men or male adolescence. Nope. That's because it's not drawing from the correct data set, which would be the NIS. But the and the reason they do have the authority to say which one is the
00:24:37
Andrew Wilsoncorrect data set because they all draw from the NIS. All of them draw from this data set, the NIS. They have to. It's the most comprehensive source for reporting. So here's what happens. If you wanted to gather data, you're a psychologist. Are you seriously
00:24:49
Andrew Wilsonexplaining to me how it works to gather data? No, I'm asking you a question. If you wanted to gather data, right? If you want, especially on crimes, you would use law enforcement or the best source for reporting, right? In this case,
00:25:02
Andrew Wilsonself-reporting is going to be far less reliable than reports to the police, things like this, right? Yes, understandable. So, you're saying that this is the most comprehensive, therefore the most reliable source. It's the most comprehensive source. Where are you finding that it is the most comprehensive? Because you haven't
00:25:14
Kylie Brewermentioned a source that says it is because I'm looking at it now. The NIS. That's not from the NIS. There's the National It's from the NIS. From the NIS. There's the National Center of for Victims of Crime in RAIN,
00:25:26
Andrew Wilsonwhich is the statistics that I just draws from the NIS. Okay. So then how come it draws from the same source? My conclusion is different than yours. Because they changed the criteria for what is considered assault and they
00:25:37
Andrew Wilsonchange the criteria? Like I've seen it as bad as them saying that men cannot be essayed by women because it's non-penetrative. I see. So you're saying that those that would skew the numbers. It does skew the numbers. So the results
00:25:48
Andrew Wilsonof the national incident study NIS the largest collection of all types of reported data related to abuse the malreatment 68% of maltreated uh children were maltreated by a female 48%
00:26:01
Andrew Wilsonmaltreated by a male. Women when they're in positions of power over the over people who are weaker than them actually abuse more than men do. So at the same time while you say well women have to
00:26:13
Andrew Wilsonrun this big gambit of threats from men because men are much stronger than women and more have more propensity of violence when women are in charge of people who are inferior in strength to them they're incidences of violence
00:26:24
Kylie Brewertowards them are much higher than men's incidences of violence towards them. It sounds like women are the greater threat here than men. Sure. Um if you want to say that that's totally your prerogative but that's not what the numbers say. So you can say what no no no it's my turn
00:26:37
Kylie Brewerto speak. You can say what you want about all the different statistics and how they come from a specific study, but the point is that they are there are different estimates and basically every study conducted globally has found that the number of female victims is
00:26:49
Kylie Brewerastronomically higher than male victims. Not to say male victims aren't important. If you are a male victim, especially if you haven't spoken up, I have seen the effects of having male sexual assault in my family. So, please like talk to somebody. It is serious. But one in six boys have been sexually
00:27:01
Andrew Wilsonassaulted. And a lot of the time it is by male offenders. But what about the fact that when we're talking about wages of abuse of children, women are are the ones who are most often in charge of
00:27:12
Andrew Wilsonchildren. The domestic rates for instance inside of a boy's home where the guards prison guards are all male and it's a male uh you know youth
00:27:23
Andrew Wilsonpopulation versus female. If there's a female you uh females in charge of the youth population, the statistics for abuse skyrocket. Same thing inside of public schools. Are you saying that women are more likely to be uh women are
00:27:35
Andrew Wilsonmore likely? No, women are more likely than men when it comes to the weaker sex. In this case, children, we would just say children are the the uh I not I mean both sexes, right? But they're
00:27:47
Andrew Wilsonthey're the weaker human than women. When they're in charge of children, they actually abuse them far more than what men abuse women at. And so it's like, so who's really the dangerous ones here?
00:27:58
Kylie BrewerYour 60 seconds begins. Go ahead. You're good. Thank you. Um well I would like to say that that is a a claim that that is a reasonable conclusion that you are drawing from the data that you are presenting. Unfortunately that that is
00:28:10
Kylie Brewernot true though that the vast majorities of sex offenders are male and especially when you know there are still female offenders and that is still bad. But um the point is that there is significant
00:28:21
Kylie Brewermale dominance and that most sex offenders are male and females do commit sex crimes but they're often under represented as perpetrators. So you're correct. Um but the data you're reporting is it do you want to continue?
00:28:32
Kylie BrewerYes, please. Um and so you're 60. This is from the United States Commission sentencing which is just about sexual abuse offenders. Um and there's a whole pie chart here but in like about how many times they offend and who they
00:28:44
Kylie Breweroffend and um who they're under guidance for and again it is saying that the vast majority up to 80% of the perpetrators um are men. Yeah. Yeah. You can talk now. So women do you agree with me that
00:28:56
Andrew Wilsonwell I have to ask some questions here. so I can figure some things out. I hope that you'll answer them. So, do you agree with me that uh both men and women have the propensity to in some way essay the other the other partner both of
00:29:09
Andrew Wilsonthem? Yeah, I wouldn't say that it's I mean no yes I agree it is definitely possible for both sexes to do that. The question becomes if you have if you switch criteria around right for what is considered sexual assault. Let's just
00:29:22
Andrew Wilsonassume things like cat calling are put in the category that's harassment. But are you saying it's categorized not as harassment but as a form of sexual abuse? Would you say that that would
00:29:34
Andrew Wilsongreatly skew the numbers if that were how it was classified? Yes. Do you have evidence that is how it is? I do. In fact, there's there's a whole grouping of colleges in a study that I can show
00:29:43
Andrew Wilsonyou where that was smuggled in as a form of uh of sexual assault or essay or sexual battery in some cases, right? They smuggle in but and so what they do
00:29:54
Andrew Wilsonis they decide that they want to make that data set wider and so they just reclassify things which would not ordinarily be classified as sexual assault or sexual battery by just inserting those things. Now the same same exact thing happens here. Do you
00:30:07
Andrew Wilsonthink that it's very masculine, for instance, inside of society for men to go and report when a woman gives them unwanted touching? No. And I I matter of fact, I do know male victims with female perpetations. And they have unwanted
00:30:18
Andrew Wilsontouching. Yes. So, they're just far more likely to report it because of the social stigma, which happens to them often from women who tell them things like, "I don't consider you a real man." Like you did to me earlier. Oh. Um I
00:30:30
Andrew Wilsondidn't really say that, but you did. Your exact words were, "A real man would X." Oh, yeah. like real men like my dad who have the same political beliefs but don't talk to women the way you do. Yeah. Whatever that means. But anyway, so a real man a real man does X, right?
00:30:43
Andrew WilsonWouldn't you say that the social stigma around the fact that women can kind of get away with the same type of inappropriate touching without men reporting would greatly skew these numbers? Yes. However, I think that
00:30:53
Kylie Brewerwomen um and men who are victims and are perpetrators as well, I think those are both under reportported. I think across the board it's under reportported, but more for male victims with female perpetrators. How many more for male victims? I don't know. But it could be
00:31:06
Kylie Brewerit could be drastic, right? And I would hope not. And if it is drastic, then it would skew your numbers on all of those percentages across the board. Absolutely. It would. But the problem is we have no way of gathering that data. And with the data we do have though, I see what you're saying about the stigma.
00:31:18
Kylie BrewerBut it is so vastly that women are victims and men are the perpetrators that I don't see that catching up in any percentage. Why not? It it depends on how underreported it is. In fact, a lot
00:31:27
Andrew Wilsonof these data sets draw from unreported incidences via estimates, don't they? unreported incidences via estimates. Yes. So I suppose yeah there's no way
00:31:38
Andrew Wilsonthat they can actually gather that data. Um yeah. Yeah. So this would be the exact same thing, right? They're making a supposition based on an estimate. This would equally have to apply to men. But
00:31:51
Andrew Wilsonif the social stigma is there by your own admission that men are basically not reporting the instances of unwanted touching from women due to this social stigma, we don't actually know how bad that social stigma really is, do we? No.
00:32:03
Kylie BrewerAnd I mean that's also what feminists that's a great point and I agree with you because feminists that is one of Oh, it's also my 60 seconds, right? Well, we're having a back and forth now. So, okay. Well, can I have 60 seconds cuz I would just like to talk a little bit about like we can't like we can't get
00:32:15
Kylie Brewerinto a back and forth and then and then like arbitrarily demand whole blocks. Well, I'm just going to give some statistics cuz I think we're on the same page here. I think we've actually found common ground. So, the the stigma around um essay and abuse is what allows these
00:32:28
Kylie Brewernumbers to be under reportported. And so I think that because that's what feminists want is we want men to be comfortable coming forward as well because we want safety and equality for the sexes. That is what the definition of the term is is the belief in social, economic and political equality of the sex. Let me refute these lies because
00:32:41
Andrew Wilsonwell I think that some people don't believe that. All all national campaigns that I've seen hyperfocus on women and the abuse of women already making this supposition that men are the monsters and the criminals who are doing the unwanted touching and the essaying and
00:32:53
Andrew Wilsonbecause of that because this is done at a national level at a state level at a local level and the organizations and NOS's are all hyperfocusing on women. This stigma towards men is never addressed because women are only looking at it through the prism of women. You
00:33:07
Andrew Wilsonknow it's not just women who are working on these studies right and who are writing these articles. It doesn't matter. Don't you say men can be feminists? Yeah. Okay. So, by your criteria, these men who have the same exact worldview as you, they're still
00:33:17
Andrew Wilsonhyperfocusing on feminism. And the idea always starts with the supposition that men are the more violent sex, that there are more often doing these types of of essay, sexual assaults, things like
00:33:28
Andrew Wilsonthis. And what do we end up with? We end up with very skewed numbers based on the criteria, right? where uh within just a matter of minutes we can determine that not only can most of this stuff be replicated but we can also determine
00:33:40
Kylie Brewerthat just based on the viewed categorization of these things they can't be true these numbers can't be true okay no um so I don't understand where you're coming from with how it can't be true how something can't be true because again if you're going off of something being under reportported
00:33:53
Kylie Brewerand the data not being there you're saying okay well then this is true which means this can't be true which means this and you're not even going from like actual data you want me to demonstrate it no no I'm okay I'm talking for now please um I'll demonstrate it real quick. So, it would be like this. You know what? I'm I'm actually okay. I feel
00:34:07
Kylie Brewerlike you've dominated the conversation for the last few minutes. If that's okay, if I would like to Well, I thought you just wanted me to demonstrate for you something. No, no, I'm actually okay on that. Thank you. You don't you don't want me to? You asked me a question. You don't want me to answer it. No, no, no. I was actually in the middle of talking.
00:34:19
Kylie BrewerOkay, go ahead. Um, thank you. Um, so you're welcome. Thank you. No, like that was genuine. I wasn't trying to be I know. You're welcome. Thanks. Uh, yeah. So, um, the patriarchy is benevolent. Yes. So I think that the four principles
00:34:31
Kylie Brewerthat uh is it's a common misconception and if you want to refute these like I would love that but working to increase equality economically and politically for for women um which again not rooted in female supremacy but some people
00:34:44
Kylie Brewerthink it is uh expanding human choice human choice meaning male female everyone um elim eliminating gender stratification which means you know globally it's hang can we move back to
00:34:53
Kylie Brewertwo yes expanding human choice um and for everybody and And then three, eliminating gender stratification. Um, you know how like most of the power and
00:35:05
Kylie Brewermoney is concentrated to men globally. So sort of making the opportunities there for women. And again, like you have to think about this globally as well. Like not it's not we're very US- ccentric I think in this debate, but
00:35:16
Kylie Brewerthere are definitely countries where women are really really uh deprived of any sort of autonomy. And then the final one is ending sexual violence, which we've talked about quite a lot. So those are the four principles of feminism as
00:35:27
Kylie Brewerwe see it today. Um and although there are different places around the world I guess we can focus um you know sort of here and globally if you have points on that or if you just want to confine it
00:35:39
Andrew Wilsonto the US then let me know. Yeah. Well the US is where I live that's where I'm talking about. But okay so when we're discussing this this idea especially of no no these numbers are accurate that
00:35:51
Andrew Wilsonactually can't be true. You said no it it actually can't be. Well, no, it can't be because one, you've already admitted that there's a stigma towards reporting, which means that these numbers are already skewed right from the get-go. Here's a good demonstration of this. This is something you'll hear
00:36:02
Andrew Wilsonpsychologists say a lot, and I'm sure you probably said it yourself, that mental illness probably has always been somewhat near as high as it is right now. It's just that it went under reportported, right? That's something that you would say. Or trans there's
00:36:14
Andrew Wilsonjust as many transgender people now as there were or homosexuals. It's just that we didn't have the right numbers cuz they weren't able to report them correctly, right? So it follows then that if it is the case that under all of these circumstances due to a lack of
00:36:27
Andrew Wilsonreporting due to stigma we didn't have the correct numbers and so you can suppose that into the data that you have right now for how many there's always been why couldn't I do the exact same thing with SA numbers? No, you can. But um how are you going to get the fig like
00:36:39
Kylie Brewerhow are you going to get the figure that it is more are you saying it's more female perpetrators like than male perpetrator? How could you possibly get that number? Because if I look at the raw data and we look at stigmas, right? If we're looking we agree on stigma but
00:36:50
Andrew Wilsonthe data how do you have because the data is not taking into account the stigma towards male reporting. But it is but I'm saying there are no reporting cases. Yeah. How do you how do you report the cases if the stigma is there
00:37:02
Kylie Brewerfor them to not report? So yes, given that how do we come up with any because you know these other places they come up with estimates studies that you just cited. So how do we come up with an estimate for female whether we come up with the estimate or
00:37:14
Andrew Wilsonnot we have good reason to doubt the the uh the various estimates by RAIN and these other sexual advocacy organizations especially when I look at the NIS because when I look at the NIS I get totally different numbers and it's
00:37:25
Andrew Wilsonway more comprehensive. It's the largest most comprehensive data set on planet earth is the NIS and that's what it shows. It shows that women are far more likely to abuse their children than men.
00:37:36
Andrew WilsonWhen when women are in positions of dominant power and authority over weaker people than themselves, they're more likely to abuse almost every time. This is also included in healthc care stats when they are in charge of people who
00:37:47
Kylie Brewerare weaker than them in healthcare situations. They abuse far more than men do. You keep talking about the NIS like which specific like are you talking about the national in because what the specific study that you're talking about how women are perpetrators more frequently genuinely cannot find it
00:38:00
Kylie Breweranywhere on the internet. Okay, I'll pull up the exact study if you give me just a second. Yeah, no, that's fine. Um because I'm looking at like the Bureau of Justice statistics and like you know like the FBI from the US even the CDC find this
00:38:11
Andrew Wilsonfrom the US Department of Justice sexual victimization and juvenile facilities reported by youth 2012. Okay. Okay. And is this where you're saying that these are all comprehensive? These are all comprehensively included inside of the
00:38:23
Andrew WilsonNIS. This is why I'm saying is that I have each individual study ready for you. The you can look also and we can we can move to this as well if you want to. Wait, so is this the one where you're saying that female perpetrators are more
00:38:34
Andrew Wilsonfrequent? Is that what you're talking about? Yes. Yes. From the that's from the national incident study. Oh, national incident study. Yes. Okay. The largest collection of all types reported data related to abuse, malreatment of
00:38:46
Andrew Wilsonchildren. 68% of the maltreated children were maltreated by a female. 48% maltreated by a male. In every circumstance, the NIS finds that when women are put in charge of uh people who
00:38:58
Andrew Wilsonare weaker than themselves are more likely to abuse than the stronger sex, that being men. And what's interesting about this is it gives us every reason to believe that if women had the exact same frame and build as men did, that
00:39:11
Andrew Wilsonmen that uh that they would actually abuse far more often than men do them. Right? So what we're looking at here is we're looking at a huge problem where women who are supposedly being abused by
00:39:24
Kylie Brewermen are doing a whole lot of abuse which is going unreported of children while you're focusing on the scapegoat of men. Yeah. I don't doubt that women are unfortunately a lot of women are abusing children. But the study that you're saying the only thing that I'm able to
00:39:36
Kylie Brewerfind is that one in every 25 children in the US experience malreatment. Neglect is more prevalent than abuse. And then they talk about how for the 4% of children that experience genuine maltreatment and and danger of of death. But I I'm not seeing anything. Um it
00:39:49
Kylie Brewersays, "Oh, girls were sexually abused much more often than boys under the harm standard and endangerment standard with male perpetrators being more common." That's all I was able to find. Um uh Okay. Would you like for me to actually link it to you? That was just from the
00:40:01
Andrew Wilsonjuvenile facility study though, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what about the NIS data? The NIS data is going to be the most important because it's the most comprehensive collection of it. It's funny because you keep repeating this talking point about a study that I can't
00:40:13
Andrew Wilsonfind. Uh, well, how do you I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but from the So, you think that um the National Incident Study is not reporting this? Like, I could link I can link it to you. No, I I believe it. I'm just saying like
00:40:25
Kylie Brewerthere are so many more common sources that have different numbers talking about how male perpetrators are more common than the study that you're talking about because I genuinely I'll I got a little more for you. The US Department to me is that Yeah. The US
00:40:38
Andrew WilsonDepartment of Health and Human Services has been tracking the data on child abuse and neglect since 1978 with something called the National Incident Study, NIS. The National Incident Study is a congressionallymandated periodic effort of the United States Department
00:40:49
Andrew Wilsonof Health and Human Services. There have been four such reports, the latest being the NIS-4, which came out 2010. This includes the breakdown. The NIS gathers data from all reporting agencies that and any study will pull from these
00:41:02
Andrew Wilsonagencies because it's the congressional authority which is gathering that data. The methodology the NIS uses the standard definitional framework for classifying child maltreatment including both types of abuse and neglect. These
00:41:13
Kylie Brewerare the legitimate numbers and feminists have been hiding them under a rock because they don't want to talk about this issue. Um I I I think that that is an interesting theory. I think that a lot of the things that you're talking
00:41:25
Kylie Brewerabout go more into theory than into fact. And that's okay. I think that goes into what I'm saying is like just generally that's why I'm here is to debunk a lot of the myths. Um why you didn't debunk that myth? Well, again, you said you would send me the study.
00:41:38
Kylie BrewerCannot find the study that women are more likely to be perpetrators. It doesn't I I genuinely cannot find a single thing. I've been looking for 5 10 minutes. You've been looking for what? Have you been looking on? I've literally looked at exactly what you said. Cannot find the numbers. Because I like I'm not
00:41:52
Kylie BrewerThis is not trying to be like an appeal to like authority, but I've done like debate my whole life and like obviously like most of the time we tend to focus on the facts. So to me, if I can't understand the facts, I they don't exist of where I'm finding it. That is a problem for me.
00:42:05
Kylie BrewerOkay. I I saw that it didn't say the numbers that you were talking about. Yes, it has them. This is from There's no way you scroll down so I can read it. How in the world? I was just on that website and they did not say that female perpetrators are more common. Did you
00:42:15
Andrew Wilsonread that entire thing in 2 minutes? That is nonsense. It is huge. There is no possible way you went through those numbers. I read like that is the biggest book. That is the biggest c. There is no
00:42:28
Andrew Wilsonpossible way you went through that in 2 minutes. It is massive. Okay, you can think that. It's okay. What do you mean think that that is not humanly possible? Do you have magic powers that I'mware
00:42:37
Andrew Wilsonunaware of? I don't know. You're pretty smart. What? Oh, come on. At least be honest in the debate. I mean, there's you could just say I didn't read it. You I couldn't find the numbers that you're citing. There's no possible way that
00:42:51
Kylie Brewerexist. The numbers that you're talking about there. They don't exist. Female perpetrators are not more common than male perpetrators. So like again I would prefer that we would stick to actual reality and facts that these are the actual realities and facts I just showed
00:43:03
Andrew Wilsonyou the study right the most likely reason why women are more likely to abuse than men other than the fact they're not being used to checked on uh using force is the UK's leading mental health charity the mental health foundation says that today women are
00:43:16
Andrew Wilsonthree times more likely than men to experience common mental health problems as well. Do you want to go over that about how men are more likely to experience mental health issues? No, females, women are more likely to experience mental health issues. What is your point? Yes. Than men. What's your
00:43:29
Kylie Brewerpoint? Well, how is feminism combating this? I would hope that we can continue to do a better job. I mean, there's a lot of people that I know that really struggle with their mental health and a lot of I mean, we don't have to get too deep into it, but I know that a lot of
00:43:40
Kylie Brewerwomen who have experienced some uh abuse uh sexually at the hands of a man and then that led them to have mental health issues. I also know men more than sold PTSD. No, no, no, no. PTSD is certainly an issue, but you can get PTSD from a number of things. So I I would like to
00:43:53
Kylie Brewerpoint out that like just saying one thing doesn't negate the other, right? So like just because I think it's important to talk about women's mental health doesn't mean men's mental health isn't important because again they are more likely to like you know what about the fact that women's women's mental
00:44:05
Andrew Wilsonhealth has been astronomically growing in the negative direction under feminism especially under the egalitarianism of gender. They report they report the h the happiest levels that women report are when they're married and in traditional gender roles. Have you ever
00:44:18
Andrew Wilsonheard of the term ignorant? The phrase ignorance is bliss. I'm sorry. Do I want to I'm sorry. Do I need to go and experience killing someone? Right. To know that I don't want to experience killing someone. What? Well, ignorance is bliss. It's possible,
00:44:31
Andrew Wilsonfor instance, that I could kill someone and really love it, right? To maybe talk about Well, hang on. I want you to answer my question. Is that possible? I just don't really understand how. Can you answer my question, though? If is it possible that I could kill somebody and
00:44:44
Andrew Wilsonthen just really like it? But how does that answer my question? Please stop negating the question. Just answer the question. I just don't really want to talk about murder. I don't care what you want to talk. I want you to answer my question and I'll answer yours. I'm not answering your question. Just go to your You're not going to answer my question
00:44:56
Andrew Wilsonabout murder that's not related to business. Yes. It's a Listen, it's logically answer how you think I would answer. Answer how you answer. What do you mean? I'm in a debate with you. I'm not in a debate with me. I'm not Why would I answer this hypothetical
00:45:08
Andrew Wilsonquestion about murder that has nothing to do with I was talking about If it has nothing to do with it, I'm going to look really stupid, right? So, just answer the question. So, um, go ahead and finish because I would like So, my question to you was, isn't it possible
00:45:21
Andrew Wilsonthat I could kill someone who really like it? That would be yes or no. I understand how this works, but I need you to answer my questions. We're in a debate. I will answer your questions,
00:45:32
Andrew Wilsonbut you also need to answer mine or I can't get to the worldview. Yes or no? Okay. I just This seems like a really moot point to me, and it Can you just answer it then? You've wasted like like two minutes not answering the question. It's like a three-hour debate. Yeah. Why
00:45:46
Brian Atlasare you wasting time? Just answer the question. Look, Kylie, it's it's conceivable that you're going to propose hypothetical questions to Andrew to test and I'll answer them logic and worldview. He'll answer it. He's I think it's a fair
00:45:59
Kylie Brewerquestion. If you can answer it as the moderator, sure. Um I suppose it is possible. Yes. That if you did it, then you would enjoy it. Although it makes me uncomfortable to talk about that. Okay. But if that's if this is the Well, it
00:46:10
Andrew Wilsonwould be possible for any human being. Yeah. Yeah. logically possible. So the thing is is that knowing that this is true that we could I am actually ignorant having never killed anybody,
00:46:20
Andrew Wilsonright? And I am in bliss about that. I myself am really really happy that I've never done that even though I could do that and be very happy about that. The idea that you would make the point
00:46:31
Andrew Wilsonignorance is bliss seems to in I just want to give you I'll give you the the quick answer. I have to wait for you to let me talk. Thank you. You're welcome. So what I would say is this. When you say ignorance is bliss, all
00:46:44
Andrew Wilsonyou're doing is alluding to the fact that people should engage in I'm giving you 15 seconds. If you don't give me Mike, I'm leaving. Go ahead. 15. Oh my god. You're going to leave? Oh no. Uhoh. Look, Andrew's finishing his point. I
00:46:56
Kylie Brewerwas He was finishing his point. No, I'm serious. 10 15 seconds because he's been talking for the last 5 minutes. So, it's really not fair. You're You're not moderating very well here. Well, to be fair, you guys got to allow We were
00:47:08
Brian Atlasactually doing really well, I think. Hold on. Hold on. until I was until I was making a broader point. Then then I that wasn't well it was at the expense of me speaking is the problem. Hold on just one moment. So look in in conversations and especially in a
00:47:21
Brian Atlasdebate. Look, sometimes people are going to are going to butt in. There's been a few times you've done it, Andrew's done it. You've both done it. I'm trying my best here. Well, that's why I'm alerting you. I feel like at this point I would like to be able to speak my point
00:47:33
Kylie Brewerbecause he he inter he rebuted me before I was able to give my point and that's that's been happening the last time. You asked me a question. Have you heard the term ignorance is bliss? So I could speak and explain my point. Yeah. So then I said yes and said but we here's
00:47:45
Andrew Wilsonthe problem. Talk for about 3 4 minutes and then try to back me into corner. The expression when I ask you a question you answer it I expect a yes or no and then you give a comprehensive answer like I was.
00:47:57
Kylie BrewerSo can I can I give my my explanation? Did you are you done Andrew? Okay. Okay. So um you you going back like 5 minutes basically to what we mentioned was the term like oh women are happier in the home with a husband and kids right and
00:48:09
Kylie Brewerso the term of ignorance is bliss I think for a lot of women who do not have the opportunity to get an education and they are forced to be in the home they don't know any other alternative so some women are truly happy but if that becomes the standard that women have to
00:48:21
Kylie Brewerbe in the home and have kids and they don't have the opportunity to get an education then of course that's going to be something that they think brings them joy because they don't have any other opportunities and so like there's a lot of people in my mom's generation or my grandma's generation where like they
00:48:34
Kylie Brewerwere like, "Man, I wish I could have gone to school and like had an education and like picked someone and they just fell into a marriage that either was abusive or like they weren't happy." And so I think that um it's easier to report higher levels of happiness when you
00:48:47
Kylie Brewerperceive it to be your own your only option is living in the home and having children and raising them. So, but what do you have to say to that? Yeah. So interestingly because it goes to your like underreported things like well first of all when when you give anecdotal evidence like oh my mom and
00:49:01
Andrew Wilsonmom's friends I can give you an actual study if you want may have and I can refute it I promise. But here's the thing when you give anecdotal evidence and you say well my mom's friends this and that wish that they could have gone to school. There's also anecdotal evidence and an awful lot of it and you
00:49:13
Andrew Wilsoncan find it on YouTube right now of tons of women saying they wish that they had not gone and gotten a career and wish that they would have instead deferred those childbearing years in order to have a family because they see the happiness levels of their friends,
00:49:26
Andrew Wilsoncolleagues, f you know co-workers, things like this that anecdotally is also just as true. But to even go on to the ignorance is bliss. I could say this and make this case about literally anything. I could say, well, I would
00:49:38
Andrew Wilsonlove heroin, right? I've never taken it. But ignorance is bliss, right? Oh, I could say ignorance is bliss about literally anything. Any drug, hang on. Any risky I didn't cut you off. Any risky behavior, any of this. I could say
00:49:50
Andrew Wilsonthat about anything. What you're doing is saying I'm these women are happy. There must be some bad reason for that. Some women are happy. No, you're saying these women are happy and there must be a bad reason for that. And the bad because they're doing traditional Hang
00:50:03
Andrew Wilsonon. Because they're doing traditional gender roles. So that must be bad. So we can explain that away by saying if they had all these negative experiences that those women who have those negative experiences actually report a higher unhappiness level, those women would
00:50:15
Kylie Breweractually be happier. That's absurd logic by the way. Okay. Sure. Um well again I agreed with you on quite a few things there. But I would also like to say that like I said at the beginning in my opening statement, the home being the most dangerous place for women like there are women who are in abusive
00:50:28
Kylie Brewermarriages and so they have to convince themselves that they are happy because their husband is beating them or like assaulting them or harming their children. And um when you're in that sort of situation, it's very difficult
00:50:39
Kylie Brewerto be able to walk away from it and often times because you're isolated. Um and so yeah, because the home is the most dangerous place for women and you know six women are killed every hour in the home um around the world. Those are very difficult realities that a lot of
00:50:51
Kylie Brewerpeople don't want to grasp. And I'm not saying that every woman doesn't, you know, isn't happy in the home. I think there are plenty of happy moms. I mean, my mom has worked and raised our children, you know, her children and my sisters and I and like helped my dad out
00:51:04
Kylie Brewerwith like work. But yeah, for the most part was a stay at home mom and I think she really enjoyed it. But for me at this point in my life, that's not something that I would like. And it's not to say that it's, you know, it's a bad thing, but I just I think that some
00:51:15
Andrew Wilsonpeople are um convincing themselves that they're happy when in reality it's a very uh difficult situation. Well, I'm going to have to go back to the NIS where I point out to you that as you keep saying that the most dangerous situation for women is in the home.
00:51:28
Andrew WilsonWell, that's according to the UN around the world though, not just here. Okay. But inside of the United States at least and inside of the Western nations, this is a commonality that they all share. It's not usually from the husband. It's
00:51:38
Andrew Wilsonusually from boyfriends of single women or single moms or uh as far as for instance cohabitation. Cohabitation leads to some of the worst outcomes for
00:51:50
Andrew Wilsonwomen when they're not married and men. It leads to terrible outcomes for both. This idea that you have that some when you when you say this, it's very loaded. It gives the impression that husbands are at home abusing their wives. And the
00:52:02
Andrew Wilsonopposite is actually true. The truth is is that when women get divorced and they end up in these occupied relationships, that's when they end up with the most amount of abuse, not from their husbands. Well, I think it's uh you know how we were talking about earlier about
00:52:14
Kylie Brewerlike confounding factors and other things that might uh the classification of things might change the results of studies for this one. Um I'm looking about it looking at it and it says facts and statistics on you know domestic violence DV and it's mainly um including
00:52:28
Andrew Wilsonpartner intimate partner. So it's it's not talking about husband or boyfriend. That's why we separate them right. So, we would separate those two categories to see who's the more abusive. Do you have a statistic? Yes, I just gave it to you twice from the NIS. I know, but like I I'm looking at it and again like I'm
00:52:40
Andrew Wilsonhaving Show me the numbers from the NIS that you're looking at. I actually don't believe you. Oh, I'm not looking at the NIS right now. I was looking at it earlier. Could not find the number you were talking about. Yeah, but you looked at it from one minute. No, I didn't. You
00:52:51
Kylie Brewerdid those I I literally pulled it direct from the NIS itself. When there is a minor in the home and there is abuse, they look at both parents and in that
00:53:01
Kylie Brewercase they are finding according to this the domestic violence center data for mankind initiative. I'm finding the mankind initiative the cult the cult the
00:53:12
Kylie Brewermankind initiative. I I have no idea what you're I mean this is like a it's a statistic like it's like um a study that's produced or I could go to the University of Pennsylvania do that because the Mankind Initiative as far as
00:53:23
Kylie BrewerI know is a western cult which exists as a deasculating agency just so you know um I okay uh well so it's saying
00:53:34
Kylie Breweranalyzing 31,000 this is pen today um so this does uh go to your to your point it is just slightly above the spouse rate
00:53:42
Andrew Wilsonfor abusive boyfriends. Um but again um and those go reported much more right than or I'm sorry the marriage rates go reported much more than the inter than
00:53:54
Andrew Wilsonthese rates where you're living outside of the home with another man. Right. So because that's the more common living arrangement. Therefore I am correct. It is true that the most dangerous situations coccupancy not marriage. I
00:54:07
Kylie Brewermean there's different I think it's difficult. you you deal a lot in absolutes and as a teacher that's something that we are told not to do to facilitate like open communication is because you typically say well this is
00:54:18
Kylie Brewertrue this is true that means I am truth I am correct in saying this thing but again statistics are changing all the time so actually you're contradicting yourself because at the beginning you were like what I'm saying is I can negate I can negate these with logic by
00:54:31
Andrew Wilsonsimply pointing pointing this out I mean you can negate anything when you talk to yourself like you do because you're not really listening to the words that are coming out of my mouth I'm listening to do you want me to steal me in your position you just said to me that everything everything when it comes to
00:54:42
Andrew Wilsonstatistics is fluid. I would tend to agree with that based on data which is coming in. However, we still have to apply logic and inductive reasoning even when we're dealing with data sets
00:54:53
Andrew Wilsonespecially. I didn't say we don't I agree. So those are unchanging unconfounding variables logic and reason. So, if we're using those two things, we can easily point to this and say we know for sure that it's going to
00:55:05
Andrew Wilsonbe under reportported in cohabitation and possibly uh reported at least better from the marriage standpoint. That's probably that's probably true. I don't think anybody would really dispute that. Yeah, actually I found a study to your
00:55:18
Kylie Brewerpoint. Researchers have consistently found higher rates of violence in cohabitating compared to marital relationships. But in those cases, still it is 95% of perpetrators are male. So, what do you have to say in terms of that? Yeah. Okay. So here's what
00:55:29
Andrew Wilsonhappens. What feminism has done, especially with the destruction of the marriage, is it has put women in the most vulnerable position where now they leave their home with their husband where they're the abuse rates are not
00:55:41
Andrew Wilsonnearly so high as pretentious feminists pretend they are so that they can cohabitate with men, with other men who are strangers to them, strangers to their children. It puts their children at risk and it puts them at actually
00:55:53
Kylie Brewerhigher risk than if they had stayed with their husbands in most cases. Oh, okay. that makes sense as an explanation, but I think that um like again that's an anecdote that's probably not true for everybody. Um and the the cases are are
00:56:05
Kylie Brewerpretty clearly in place like the the evidence has shown that regardless of whether there's children in the marriage, 95% of the perpetrators are men. And you know, we were talking about how it is likely under reportported for female perpetrators, right, in
00:56:19
Kylie Brewermarriages. I'm sure there are abusive wives, but I think that the point being is that it is very um it is definitely a pattern in terms of in the United States of the home being made unsafe because of
00:56:31
Kylie Breweruh men that live there. It doesn't have to be the husband, but it is uh men that are um you know being violent with the women that they are living with. And I think your point about how it's it's women that are picking these boyfriends
00:56:42
Kylie Brewerthat are abusing them is not uh fair because again, you don't know men that are going to be to turn out to be abusive until they hit you one day. It doesn't start out with, you know, if you went on a first date with a woman and she clocked you in the face, would you continue to date her? No, you wouldn't.
00:56:54
Andrew WilsonIt's the same with women. Here's what we're going to do. Andrew Andrew, you give your response, then we're going to do a prompt change. Okay. Okay. So, I don't I Okay. But yeah, that was the end of my I don't even understand this. Like, all of the stats back up exactly
00:57:06
Andrew Wilsonwhat I'm saying. you agree with me that what I'm saying is likely the most true case scenario at least compared to all the numbers boyfriends being more abusive. Yeah. Can can I finish? Right. I didn't cut you off. So the thing is is
00:57:18
Andrew Wilsonlike look as we look at this data the data backs up everything that I just said especially when it comes to cohabitation. You say well it's not women's responsibility that they're picking these men. It's like well women are initiating most of these divorces.
00:57:31
Andrew WilsonFor one they're leaving their husbands. They put themselves in this confounding situation where now they're being abused by strange men often because they want them as sexual partners or other things like this. You say, "Well, that's the true that the abuse happens inside of
00:57:43
Andrew Wilsonthese places male whether there's children or not." Great. But when it's a cohabitation event where children are involved, you're now putting your children at risk because the the risk
00:57:53
Andrew Wilsonskyrockets for abuse. Skyrockets for abuse of those children. No wonder men don't want to get married to modern women if they're going to get divorced and their women are going to put their
00:58:04
Andrew Wilsonchildren in an abusive situation, right? And that's what the stats show more than anything. Not that women are being abused, but that when they have authority over children, they are putting them in situations where they are abused or abusing them themselves.
00:58:16
Brian AtlasThat's what's actually happening. We do have to change prompts. Uh Andrew, I think uh you wanted to perhaps discuss patriarchy and force doctrine. You'd like to get into that? Go ahead. Yeah,
00:58:27
Andrew Wilsonyou can start. Yeah. So, I'll give you my definition of patriarchy first. It's a historic definition. It's means rule of the father. I often will shortphrase this to from the father. Usually, it
00:58:39
Andrew Wilsonoperates around something which is patrineal lineage rather than matrinal lineage, though not always. You can have patriarchies where there's matrinal lineage. You can find this in Judaism and other places like this. When I talk about patriarchy and broadly speaking,
00:58:52
Andrew Wilsonat least in modernity and in the last hundred years, about men being in charge of general systems, we could just say men being in charge of general systems, head of the household, head of the family, things like this. My view is
00:59:05
Andrew Wilsonthat patriarchy is always going to end up being the default. Especially the more feminism there is, you'll push more people into the patriarchy role. And here's why. Because of force doctrine. Force doctrine is a doctrine which I