FINAL SHOW! RAGE QUIT Keeko vs. Andrew Wilson IRL! Shina! Shaman Pro Cuddler?! | Dating Talk #222

Date: 2024-12-18

Duration: 9h 05m

Guests

Brian Atlas

SSheena Ray Reynolds >

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_02Davia(guest)

SPEAKER_03Kiko(guest)

SPEAKER_04Lexi(guest)

SPEAKER_05Amanda(guest)

SPEAKER_06Sheena Ray Reynolds(guest)

SPEAKER_10Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_12Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_14Maria(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian opens the final show of the year: 'I'm your host Brian Atlas.' Sets up the year-end finale atmosphere.

ControversySheena criticizes Davia for staying with a cheating ex-boyfriend. Davia pushes back hard. Lexi mediates. First major panel confrontation of the night — sets up running Davia/Sheena tension throughout the episode.

ControversyDuring the Davia confrontation, Sheena says 'I have a gun' — panel reacts with shock. Brian de-escalates.

ControversyAndrew asks Maria the shaman/animal communicator: if she can communicate with animals, could she ask an animal if it would consent to sex with a human? Maria responds: 'technically there is no problem.' Panel erupts in shock and disgust. Brian is speechless.

OtherA champagne bottle cork hits the ceiling during a celebratory moment, leaving a visible dent. Brian points it out.

ControversySheena uses a TOS-violating word (the r-word) despite prior warnings. Brian gives a final warning and threatens to ask her to leave the show. Sheena apologizes but panel and Brian are visibly frustrated.

QuoteBrian delivers his final warning speech to Sheena: explains clearly that this is her last chance, that she will be asked to leave if she uses TOS-violating language again. The speech is firm but measured.

Key MomentBody count roundtable: Kiko ~23 (disputed from prior episode), Lexi 4, Amanda 11, Maria 46 ('channeled from the angels via shaman reading'), Davia unclear, Sheena did not state, Brian claims virgin.

Key MomentSelf-ratings round: Lexi says 6, Amanda says 9, Maria says 10, Sheena says 8. Brian rates himself a 5 ('really six'). Andrew abstains.

ControversyBrian calls Kiko the f-word (f*ggot) during a confrontation over her repeatedly interrupting and trying to grab pizza. Kiko objects strongly and loudly. Panel reacts — many are shocked. Brian does not back down immediately.

ControversySheena accuses Andrew Wilson of running a 'con artist dating service' — a case of mistaken identity. Andrew fires back hard and aggressively. This triggers a major verbal confrontation between Andrew and Sheena about how he has treated her 'like a piece of shit' throughout the show.

ControversyAndrew and Sheena's major verbal confrontation: Sheena says he treated her like a piece of shit all night; Andrew dismisses this and calls her out on the false dating service accusation. Both raise their voices. Brian has to intervene.

OtherKiko reads hate mail messages during the hate mail session. She reads messages roasting other panelists and eventually calls out Brian while reading a message directed at him.

QuoteBrian announces the final show wrap-up: going on a 3-6 week holiday break. Thanks the panel, the crew, and the audience for an incredible year.

Topics Discussed

Show Intro and Announcements

Brian opens the final show of the year, announces it's the last show before a 3-6 week holiday break. Addresses the panel format, previews the night's guests, and sets the tone for a rowdy year-end finale.

Guest Introductions

Brian goes around the table having all guests introduce themselves: name, age, location, occupation, relationship status. First round: Kiko (bartender, Santa Barbara, in relationship), Lexi (student, OC, open relationship/bisexual), Amanda (law student, lesbian, in relationship), Maria (shaman/pro cuddler, 44, single). Davia and Sheena introduced later (~[0:15:09] and [0:16:59]) due to late arrival. Andrew Wilson last at [0:17:10].

Relationship Status Roundtable

Each panelist describes their relationship situation in detail. Includes Davia's situationship with cheating ex (sparking confrontation with Sheena), Lexi's open relationship, Amanda's lesbian marriage and divorce, Maria's recent breakup and restraining order filing, Sheena's 11-year marriage and 1.5 years single. Extended discussion on staying with cheaters, emotional unavailability, and red flags in modern dating.

Davia vs Sheena Confrontation

Sheena criticizes Davia for staying with a cheating ex-boyfriend. Davia pushes back; Lexi mediates. The conflict escalates with Sheena saying 'I have a gun' during the exchange (~[0:29:32]). The tension between Davia and Sheena persists throughout the episode. This sets up the episode's running interpersonal conflict.

Flake Statistics and Late Guest Messages

Discussion of the two guests who were supposed to appear but flaked. Brian reads their messages aloud to the panel — a mix of excuses and genuine issues. Panel reacts. Discussion of how commonly women flake on the show and what it signals.

Politics, Trump Voting, and Cutting Off Relationships

Panel debates whether it's reasonable to cut off friends or family over political differences (specifically voting for Trump). Lexi says yes, she cuts off people who vote for Trump. Amanda has a nuanced view. Andrew argues this reveals an impoverished social life and political tribalism. Brian contrasts cutting political ties with dating/friendship based on values alignment.

Transactional vs Duty-Based Relationships

Andrew presents his framework: healthy relationships are duty-based (you fulfill your role as husband/wife because it's right, not because of what you get in return). The panel largely operates on a transactional model. Andrew argues transactional thinking leads to instability. Discussion of whether women should submit, what men owe women, and how open relationships fit into this framework.

Transgender Identity and Disclosure Debate

Extended multi-hour debate on: whether trans women are women, whether a trans person must disclose their trans status before sex, whether a man who sleeps with a trans woman is straight or gay, the ethics of non-disclosure, and how biology relates to identity. Amanda (lesbian) argues trans women are women. Andrew argues biological sex is immutable. Brian explores the legal and ethical angles. Multiple panelists share personal takes.

Shaman and Animal Communication Philosophical Debate

Andrew asks Maria (the shaman/animal communicator) whether she could ask an animal via her abilities whether the animal would consent to sex with a human. Maria responds that 'technically there is no problem' — causing widespread shock on the panel. This leads to debate on the limits of spiritual frameworks, the difference between philosophical hypotheticals and real-world ethics, and whether Maria's worldview has any guard rails.

Does Whatever Teach Men to Hate Women

Panel confronts the recurring criticism that the Whatever podcast teaches misogyny. Andrew defends the show as exposing the consequences of feminist dating culture. The female panelists split: some say the show has value, others say it is structured to humiliate women. Brian defends his framing as honest observation, not hate. Discussion of online criticism, cancel attempts, and the show's mission.

Traditional Gender Roles and Patriarchy Debate

Andrew presents the case for traditional gender roles and patriarchy as a functional social structure that protects women and children. Lexi and Amanda resist strongly. Maria takes a spiritual angle. Brian probes whether any of the women would choose a traditional role if they could. Debate on whether feminism has helped or hurt women's happiness statistics.

Bear vs Man in the Forest Debate

The classic 'would you rather encounter a bear or a man alone in the forest' debate. Multiple panelists choose the bear. Andrew and Brian argue this reveals a deeply negative (and statistically unjustified) view of men. Amanda and Lexi defend the choice as a reasonable risk assessment. Extended debate on whether this reflects personal trauma, media-driven fear, or genuine statistical logic.

TTS Roast Intermission

Brian opens a $69/message TTS roast session. Donors send increasingly creative roasts of individual panelists. Sheena receives multiple roasts related to her TOS violations. Maria receives roasts about the animal consent moment. The session temporarily releases tension from earlier confrontations.

Open Relationships Discussion

Panel discusses open relationships in depth following revelations from Lexi (open relationship) and Maria (open to non-monogamy). Andrew makes the case that open relationships are inherently unstable and driven by one partner's desire. Brian asks whether any of the panelists' partners actually wanted the open relationship or just agreed to avoid losing them. Discussion of jealousy, communication, and the real outcomes of open arrangements.

Men as Primary Victims of War

Andrew argues that men are the primary victims of war — they are the ones conscripted, killed, and traumatized. The panel resists. Brian supports Andrew's framing. Lexi argues women are also harmed by war (as refugees, victims of wartime sexual violence, etc.). Andrew: the difference is men are deliberately killed in combat while women are harmed as collateral. Panel debates whether the draft and selective service are feminist issues.

Abortion, Bodily Autonomy, and the Draft

Panel debates the bodily autonomy argument for abortion. Andrew: if bodily autonomy justifies abortion, it also justifies men refusing child support and avoiding the draft. Lexi and Amanda argue these are not comparable situations. Brian explores the asymmetry: women can abort, men cannot compel or prevent birth, yet both are bound financially. Extended debate on equal reproductive rights.

Body Count Roundtable

Brian asks each panelist their body count in turn. Results: Kiko ~23 (disputed), Lexi 4, Amanda 11, Maria 46 (shaman reading), Davia unclear, Sheena did not state, Brian claims virgin. Extended debate on whether body count matters, the difference between men's and women's body count in terms of social value and pair bonding research, and whether caring about body count is hypocritical.

Self-Ratings Round

Panelists rate themselves on a 1-10 scale. Results: Lexi=6, Amanda=9, Maria=10, Sheena=8, Davia unclear (~5-6), Brian=5 (then 'really six'), Andrew abstained. Brian uses the ratings to discuss how self-perception correlates with behavior and relationship choices.

AI Age Filter and Aging Discussion

Brian uses an AI age filter on panelists to show what they'll look like older. Discussion of how aging affects attraction and whether people plan for it. Sheena, at 50, is the clearest case study. Maria takes a spiritual angle about aging and inner beauty. Andrew makes the case for marrying young.

Hate Mail Reading Session

Brian opens a $29/message hate mail TTS session. Kiko reads hate messages directed at various panelists. Messages roast Brian, Sheena, Kiko, and others. Kiko calls Brian out while reading a message. The session becomes increasingly chaotic as the show nears its end.

Patrice O'Neal Clip

Brian plays a clip of Patrice O'Neal discussing relationships and women's hypergamy. Panel reacts. Andrew and Brian use the clip to reinforce their arguments from earlier in the night. The female panelists are largely dismissive of Patrice.

Final Show Wrap-Up and Year-End Thanks

Brian wraps up the final show of the year. Thanks the panel, the crew, and the viewers. Announces the 3-6 week holiday break. Sheena and Andrew have their final confrontation just before wrap. Brian closes the year reflecting on the show's growth and upcoming plans.

Transcript

Page 4 of 10

Sheena Ray Reynoldsagree so you agree that a man that change his gender he's not a woman um so you're changing your biology though but here I'm changing my biology too if I'm

Sheena Ray Reynoldsif I'm 50 or 40 and I'm decided and I'm 23 or 22 I'm changing my biology I can put it in my ID imagine if it was the law let's say it was a law now that I

Sheena Ray Reynoldscan I look young I feel young my my sexual urge is here I have a cool head I go out I party I feel like I'm 23 what's the difference I can go and change my my

Lexiage and everything how many years have you paid taxes how many children have you had how many do you have ex do you have kids how many you have your period it's exactly the same it's there's a lot

Sheena Ray Reynoldsof different factors you can say that you feel 20 but it's a lot of different Factor you repeating exactly for a different thing it's a lot of different factor for me as the woman agree with that

Sheena Ray Reynoldsfor a lot of different fact let me finish as a woman I'm a woman as a woman for me it's completely disrespect when other men come and take what I've been through as a woman having my period

Sheena Ray Reynoldshaving my mood swings feeling down because of my hormones having my child with no epidural in extreme pain 17 hours in the labor room for me as a woman it's disrespectful that a man can

Sheena Ray Reynoldsjust come and take that woman and be the woman of the here after I hear that it's not even a woman for me it's completely and I don't understand how for you as a woman it's not disrespectful imagine that somebody would take your place you

Lexihave 30 seconds to respond okay one I one I don't feel like it's taking my place two having a period or um birthing a child is not a woman experience it is

Brian Atlasbut not not everybody goes through that no not everybody chooses women uh NOP okay cool all right pelagic thank you for the $100 Super Chat a moment of weakness allowing others to control your

Brian Atlasemotions uh this is obviously direct directed to me thank you pic appreciate the uh superp chat look I mean uh people can't [ __ ] follow instructions even if they've been on the show multiple

Brian Atlastimes they have no like even sense of like hey how to avoid certain even despite hearing the pre-show information multiple times

Brian Atlasbefore just continuously like edging on like TOS territory like it's obviously frustrating when not only are they breaking your rules you've told them to stop and they

Brian Atlascontinue they just not they just continue uh kind of breaking the rules of the show so I mean I don't know what else to [ __ ] say man um we a final thing on this uh I do want to ask

Brian Atlasbecause we have uh we have people who are not straight here we have people who are bisexual who are lesbian um just a couple clarifying questions I suppose to Kiko and to you um so these scenarios a

Brian Atlasuh it's fine a CIS man I don't like this term but you guys I think it's actually a slur sis but that's another conversation but for the

Brian Atlasease of con for the ease of uh I guess uh understanding here a CIS man giving oral sex to a transgender woman with a penis is that heterosexual or homosexual

Andrew Wilsonqueer what what did you just say guy comes home says I just suck my girlfriend's dick is that homosexual or hetosexual pretty [ __ ] gay yeah I'd

Brian Atlassay so by the way check out the what do you mean chat um okay so

Brian Atlasuh sorry yeah my bad well how about I mean like come on like how about this uh it's not

Brian Atlasheterosexual okay uh a CIS man having penetrative uh booty sex with a transgender woman is that

Brian Atlasheterosexual again queer okay who's penetrating who don't know matter I don't know it matter how about this but

Brian Atlaslike do you think that for example like a a lesbian woman would um a lesbian ciswoman being penetrated by a

Lexitransgender woman with a penis would this be a lesbian act would you say that uh two lesbians using a strapon is a heterosexual act no no that would not be

Brian Atlasheterosexual then what a queer obviously no but is it no no no hold on so a lesbian CIS woman being penetrated by a transgender woman with a

Lexipenis mhm is that is that a lesbian relationship yes yeah that's still pretty gay that you think that that would be lesbians use strap-ons and other things

Lexiall the time so why would it's not a strap on it's a real penis so I mean if they get it removed they're just going to use

Brian Atlasthat's not yes yeah using a strapon uh that would not change the nature of the lesbian relationship but a

Brian Atlaslesbian woman just okay just to be clear okay I'm G to ask it again so it

Brian Atlascan be a lesbian sexual encounter if a lesbian is being penetrated by a transgender woman's penis

Brian Atlassorry yes oh it would we have a lesbian woman we have a lesbian woman at the table let's ask her do you do you think that would be a lesbian sexual encounter

Amandato be for a lesbian ciswoman uh being penetrated by a transgender woman's penis I personally think this just comes down to like the

Amandawords um maybe queer would be a better way to describe it what if he came that's that's not not

Brian Atlasthat men having sex well doesn't it just sound absurd like exactly it doesn't it sound of Sur wait so just to be clear you're you're you're a lesbian woman right and would

Amandayou engage in a queer relationship no I like women and I would exactly wait but so transgender women are not women or I I like women that are presenting as women I'm like more particular oh yeah but can't transgender

Amandawomen present as women yes I think it's just personal based on preferences and like whatever anybody wants to do but personally me I

Brian Atlaswould prefer somebody who was born a woman now what if I told you that the very people that are uh would categorize themselves as lgbtq would say that your refusal to

Brian Atlasperhaps they might grant that you are not obliged to enter into this sort of uh romantic or sexual encounter but by denying that this would not be a lesbian

Brian AtlasDynam DC you yourself as a lesbian woman would be Target for Attack by I I suppose the very group in which you belong

Kikoto what I'm sorry that was very complex lgbtq advocat say you don't want to date a you don't want to date someone who's a transom to get you hate for in the LGBT

Brian Atlasyou refusing to categorize what I previously described as a lesbian sexual or romantic encounter would Mark you for attack I think everybody has their own personal

Amandapreferences and whether you're gay or straight you have preferences whether it's based on appearance or otherwise um and I don't think that that should

Sheena Ray Reynoldswarrant anybody to be attack I think you're politically correct you know you know the right answer like what he said but you're representing it in a politically correct way because you know this is a man and this is a woman it's a

Kikointercourse intercourse between men and a woman that's what I think you're just walking I think we all play stereotypes we all stereotype right at the end of the day

Kikowe all play into stereotypes and I'm sorry this gets call me and I do agree so I'm sorry if this gets me cancelled but when I think of a trans woman I

Kikothink of wigs Nails makeup hair bombshell bad be whatever but when I dated woman I went more for simplistic

Kikowoman so just because she's not attracted to bombshell pink wig ass fat but I do see your point about like cuz it it could in our community get us cancelled for saying we don't want to

Kikodate a trans woman but that's just not what we're attracted to on the dayto day could there be someone who was biologically born male who transitions to wom who is something we were attracted to maybe but that's not the

Sheena Ray Reynoldsaverage person but some some men it's like men say I don't want to date you you're too short and you're too old that's the right for so I'm not going to I'm not going going to get offended because this is his preferences so that's not the conversation I agree no

Kikobut I'm saying but they they like hate you for saying that you it's not your preferences that's the issue we both said that we have preferences and she stands by her preferences so if anything we weren't denouncing that we said we have the right to have their preferences

Kikoand we understand though that sometimes in the community that they they they will jump on your back they're like oh you're not accepting you're not this but if anything she didn't say that she said no I'm not that's not who I want to date and this is my preference so if anything

Brian Atlasshe agreed with you guys she might be saying it in a politically correct stance but she's basically saying the same thing you guys are if you can't hear that she's not at all so anyways I'm going to move it off of this topic I

Brian Atlasguess final thought though perhaps I think earlier you asked why does this matter I think you might have asked something along those depends on for what specific thing you're like why why are you so concerned with this or why

Brian Atlasdoes this matter why are we so focused on like how does it affect you why does it matter well uh one some of you have the position that there is not a Duty or

Brian Atlasthat these people should not disclose uh to potential romantic Partners this would lead to some straight people essentially being in my view essayed you might not think it's essay I think it's

Brian Atlassa if you're against sa you should probably disclose this I agree with you so so um additionally while I don't think this is the position of most

Brian Atlaspeople who are transgender or transgender activist I'm noticing a societal and cultural creep uh and I'm using that term in the like the sense

Brian Atlasthings are like creeping to a place where I don't really think is uh tenable

Brian Atlasso if if for example we are in a society where for example you might find me denying and this isn't my position but

Brian Atlasif I were to I think you would find it offensive if I were to deny that gay people exist like oh you're not actually attracted to the opposite to the same

Brian Atlaslike that you you are mistaken right what you guys are telling me is you're making a claim about heterosexuality and you're rejecting my sexuality and my

Brian Atlassexuality is not up for negotiation right I refuse to allow you to dictate to me that it would be heterosexual for a male and a male to be involved in a

Brian Atlasromantic and sexual relationship I reject it completely but your position is that it could be heterosexual for or it might not be homosexual for a male

Brian Atlasand a male to be uh it might not be heterosexual for or sorry excuse me it would it would be heterosexual for two males to be involved in a sexual romantic relationship this is an attack

Brian Atlason heterosexuality in the same way that I suspect you greatly despise the attacks on homosexuality or bisexuality or queerness there's clear clearly an

Brian Atlasattack on heterosexuality and then hold on I'll just I'm almost done and so I suppose my great issue here is at what point if I were to refuse and I

Brian Atlasoutwardly State my my sexual preference and my sexuality I would I I don't have anything against transgender people no problem whatsoever but if activists

Brian Atlasinsist that I am wrong or transphobic or a bigot because I refuse or I don't view it in the way that they find appropriate I refuse to date a transgender woman

Brian Atlaswell typically what ends up happening in these uh activists are incredibly uh effective at doing this they'll Target you for cancellation they're going to go after your finances they're going to try to get you fired

Brian Atlasfrom your job and in some cases they'll uh pursue you for uh physical violence right and so if we don't provide sufficient push back to these sorts of

Brian Atlasnarratives that you know uh essentially I'm a bigot if I don't push back intellectually that essentially your accusations towards me that I would be a bigot for for refusing

Brian Atlasto date somebody who's like this or refusing to accept the Paradigm or narrative then this opens not just me but other individuals who think like me

Brian Atlasor feel like me to financial ramifications cancellation attempts attempts to ruin somebody's career this sort of thing thing and also physical

Lexiviolence right so that's why I'm against it okay so my response to that is as I said earlier there

Lexiare things that I don't agree with on both sides that would definitely be a thing that I do not agree with from the I guess left Pro queer Community um I do

Lexi100% think that if you identify as heterosexual you have fully like the capability to say no to a transgender who wants to go out with you I I agree

Lexiwith that and as I stated earlier as well I never said that they should not disclose that they're trans but what if the part of it the reason that you're

Andrew Wilsonmaking the denial for why you would go out with this person is because you deny that it's the truth to begin with but what do you mean so if you're saying I'm not going to go out with you let's just say that there was somebody who was even

Andrew Wilsonattracted to a person who is trans okay and then specifically said but I'm not going to go out with you because you're still a man like that's what they said right

Lexiwhat's the problem with that exactly there isn't one there there isn't technically a problem it can just be hurtful towards the other person I think uh taking into account how the other

Lexiperson will feel about that is really really important cuz you can say that you're not going to want to go out with them a million but he said the truth valid doesn't matter doesn't mean that

TTS/Donation readerit makes a bad person or whatever it does $200 deine hello whatever podcast I'd just like to say the girl in the orange top is absolutely gorgeous my

TTS/Donation readerapologies for not knowing her name but definitely crushing hardam Dan romantic face uh you're swinging for the wrong team Danny and

Kikomaybe a Danny could be a girl's name thank you but it says Danny Boy it does that could and we already established that's not what she wants drunk Batman

TTS/Donation readerdonated $200 thank you to The Crucible and to the whatever podcast for a great year for Content W Andrew W brain also if you

Brian Atlasbelieve a man can be a woman you're [ __ ] TR I appreciate the troll thank you drunk drunk Batman nice to see you bro

Brian Atlasnice to see you all right uh we have a super chat here thank you drunk Batman nson La just wanted to say thanks for all the content this year couldn't tell you how many times I was working night

Brian Atlasshift and had you guys in my ears W Andrew W Brian W chat yo NS thank you so much for the support man really appreciate it we all know that shift is always better than day shift they're always cleaning [ __ ] up after day shift

TTS/Donation readerthat's the way it works uh speaking of champagne

TTS/Donation readerpops damn just Gerald just Gerald $499 pop champagne pop that champagne

TTS/Donation readerbuddy to the panel but specifically to the poison dart frog in chair too it's okay to say I'm wrong like literally

Brian Atlasit's like to change like your mind yo just guys just uh W's in the chat for

Brian Atlasuh oh we're popping another one I'm just oh she's all right K's over here [ __ ] all right recy yeah I guess so yo uh W's in the chat

Brian Atlasfor Gerald really appreciate your patronage man good to see you in the chat uh thank you so much man uh and then hold on guys we have wrongful rage

TTS/Donation readerhere coming in wrongful rage donated $200 when I think of Autobots I think robots whether it looks like a car truck

TTS/Donation readeror other automobile at the time robots in are still robots not cars trucks or other automobile also

Brian Atlastissue yo okay rage W's in the chat for rage guys thank you so much man um hold on let me how am I going to do this uh one sec

Brian Atlasboys a truck is a good attribute to have I will say though uh Kiko I'm going to we're going to do this champagne pop but you do have disagreements with the show

Brian Atlasslos uh you say just when it teaches men to hate hate women and the controversy so those are two separate statements we'll get into the first one first when you say the and the controversy what do

Kikoyou mean and the controversy I just think sometimes this podcast can put women against men and I don't think that's the answer oh boy I it's just the way to pronounce it I do know that there is a plural and singular version why do

Kikothey do that Kiko it's just the way I pronounce it I swear to God that I do know what you're saying I even listen back and it does sound like I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying but I just my pronunciation isn't clear with

Kikomy accent on the words go ahead um but I just I do see valid points on both sides I do see a lot of times what the men are saying but I just don't think the answer

Kikois to make them um hate all women same thing when the women get on here and say like oh if all men and this and that like I I think both sides are wrong and

Kikosometimes I just don't appreciate the divide it causes between the Sexes I hon if I'm being honest I think what Brian does is the least of it I think the red

Kikopill blue pill black pill whatever community in a whole fnf whatever is a bigger issue I think they're great I don't I don't appreciate the way that they speak to women sometimes I understand getting your point across

Kikopodcast so we're not going to talk about uh you asked me no but you're bringing up another podcast I'm not them so and I was I was saying how I appreciate that you are a little bit better in how you you conduct yourself I guess there's a

Kikocompliment in there yes thank you that's I was not bring I trust me I would never bring them up in high regards I was saying that when you were talking about the what you were saying how I don't like it the controversy I was saying how

KikoI do appreciate that you guys go about it a little bit better mhm but I just think that we should all come together and not hate each other that's it okay

Andrew Wilsonso do you think um this is probably the the most humorous thing about doing as much of this as I have on

Andrew Wilsonthese types of panels you is recognizing that on the one side of women's mouths they talk about equality egalitarianism how much they think that men and women

Andrew Wilsonare interchangeable widgets until you talk to him like a man and then suddenly they're a [ __ ] woman suddenly they're fragile suddenly you you can't talk to

Andrew Wilsonme like that suddenly I'm on a different playing field than you suddenly but wait you're a man right and what what I've always really tried to drive home more than anything else is that aspect is

Andrew Wilsonthat there's this sense of privilege which actually does exist with women and the second that you confront them with logic or you confront them with reason or facts or you're even moderately aggressive um just like you would be

Andrew Wilsonwith a man you wouldn't be any different if you were if you were talking to a man I would suddenly they they instantly take a front clutch their pearls they can't believe it they tone police the whole 9 yards and so for me it's like we

Andrew Wilsoncan't have your cake and eat it too right it's either your egalitarian interchangeable widgets with men champagne or you're

Kikonot and I get that point but actually let me let me let go for it okay Noah Noah donated W's in the chat for

KikoNoah jokes on Keo I've hated women long before this podcast and Noah like unless you are a

Kikoman like that's very sad like I've never hated men like that like I really hope that you can get out of that and find the right woman for you that was a joke

Kikojoking but I hope I hope he is finds the right one for him and has a great life and a great family with the woman of his life is is there even a problem with hating the way that women act in modernity is that is that even problematic it's all about does that

Andrew Wilsonmean you hate women or does that mean that you hate how people act like for well here's the thing I would never say I hate I would never go around saying I just hate men yeah you but that's not what I asked what I asked is not whether

Kikoor not it's problematic to say hate women I asked if it's problematic to say that you hate how modern women act yeah I think it's problematic because I I do understand cuz you're asking me directly yeah and I don't go

Andrew Wilsonaround saying I hate how the modern man acts don't you I don't don't you if you actually look at all myis didn't you didn't you just kind of give this indictment you said there's this like greater commity community of like red

Kikopill black pill what you're talking about I hate how the younger generation you're talking about the manosphere right what you're really talking about is the manosphere what I I I should have clarified I was going to but someone started talking I didn't want to

Kikointerrupt I also hate how the women me included I've done the same thing going on here how we conduct ourselves and it kind of not I'm not saying it's their fault we can obviously do whatever we want once we're up here but it gives the

Kikoplatform for these things to happen so I'm not saying that it's their fault but I also hate how women get up on here on these podcasts and make us look so I'm not saying it's all on the men it's it's a whole thing how we entertain the

TTS/Donation readerconversation we got to got to let Brian move it hang on damn does that make sense holy [ __ ] libertariat W's in the chat for libertar pop champagne

TTS/Donation readerholy every time a guest says woman when they you on the show I'm sorry I'm sorry I met woman I'm

Brian Atlassorry first we need once davia is back we'll do the cheers for uh just just Gerald but did we get champagne for goo we got shamp for everybody all right we'll get a little more while we're

Brian Atlasdoing that having a good time Hugo says uh the Brazilian Real uh W's in the chat for Hugo thank you so much man for the big

Brian AtlasSuper Chat sup Brian Andy thank you Hugo do appreciate it hey Hugo what's up ma'am thank you man uh we'll get the second champagne pop as soon as we

Brian Atlasgets flow bito I love you don't so don't you think Kiko though I mean you say that like just when and

Brian Atlasteaches like men to hate women like in terms of the total scale of like what cuz you say teach right and this is not an educational p hold on hold on hold on

Brian Atlasuh this is not an educational podcast really but um don't you think in compar to like the hundreds of universities and colleges in this country that almost all

Brian Atlasof which have like a women's studies or a gender studies or a feminist studies program ucsv feminist studies program um don't you think the rhetoric that they're teaching people which by the way

Brian Atlasit's not science it's just like ideology um don't you think that this is like orders of magnitude more systemic and more hateful than like anything I could allegedly be teaching you not only not

Brian Atlasonly are they teaching things that are absolutely despicable when it comes to you know essentially uh branding men as oppressor class this is like and you could say well oh feminism doesn't teach

Brian Atlasthat but like feminism the key tenants of feminism is the patriarchy Theory this is taught in like feminism 101 like if you take a feminism class you're learning about patriarchy Theory which is just that a theory and it's not

Brian Atlasactually it's totally bogus Lear standpoint Theory yeah but in any case you're B basically painting all men as oppressors and all women as oppressed this is like an absolutely hateful

Brian Atlasideology to be like all mass teaching women that men are oppressors and women are oppressed because uh you think the oppressed class is supposed to have any

Brian Atlasempathy or Compassion or anything to the oppressor class hold on hold on and so here I am in my small podcast Studio

Brian Atlaswhich like comparatively speaking I have very little influence like even on the like even no yeah I have very low influence don't downgrade yourself you have some influence no not really

Andrew Wilsonbecause because you be surprised Brian yes you do have influence don't no that's discrediting yourself comparon to the Union to the union of feminist studies lunatics and college campuses no

Brian Atlas[ __ ] way so to that to that point what I was trying to say is there's hundreds of un I don't even know what the total amount is maybe it's even in the thousands thousands of universities systems worldwide and you guys often

Brian Atlaslike to talk about like systemic blah blah blah whatever so and it is it is also worldwide they are teaching and indoctrinating young women to basically

Brian Atlashave like wholesale hatred towards hold on towards men you know what the hold on hold on you know what the like the singular Endowment for most of these

Brian Atlasuniversities is it's in the billions of dollars that's power that hold on that's power and that's influence and it's not just the University Systems they've

Brian Atlasinfiltrated feminism has seeped its way into every single facet of society proud of you Brian it's seeped its way hold on

Brian Atlasseeped its way into corporations into government into media into the news into journalism every single uh education

Brian Atlassystem not just in the universities but in like in uh because these teachers are also professors yes yeah and can I say a point and then you continue I'm you've said so much saying a lot but hold on I'm just

Brian Atlasgoing to forget the point it has its claw in every single facet of American and Western life and so you think that

Brian Atlasthis One Singular um counterculture podcast has any degree of influence again the Endowment for these universities is in the billions hold on

Brian Atlashold on yeah I know everything you said that's totally f for these universities is in the billions of dollars not done hold

Brian Atlason I get my monolog get every time he says that we need to take a drink okay ready so there you go thank you

Brian Atlashold here we go I'm not done I'm not done I waited it's like I was saying that's power billions of dollars in total uh endowment that's power that's

Kikoinfluence so the question you asked me on that paper is if I have any controversies not about all the power you had I understand that when I was at UCSB and I did take a couple feminist

Kikocourses lgbtq plus courses it was just about history and how like suffrage Aris it wasn't anything about like they're wrong they hate us this but I I have

Kikoseen documentation where universities are doing that now they are just as wrong I don't I don't I understand educating hold on I let you talk for

Kiko10es I'll respond after go has to be both ways no but I'm just I understand where you're what you're saying I'm not saying that you are worse than them it was just the question was

Kikoany controversies I had against you and I just think it aids and abides by and helps all these other podcasts and create because if you if you want to

Kikostick up from men and how there is a a uneven playing field in the dating I do see that but I just don't like how sometimes the answer is to hate all women and F all whatever I think it

Kikoshould be to have man I think it should be have discretion and CU there is women out there who are like that I don't advocate for the hatred of women but you don't but sometimes sometimes your comments do but Brian sometimes your

Andrew Wilsoncomments do I yeah I'm not responsible for Brian advocates for the hatred of feminism no I just I'm just say something nope can I ask what that is Brian I'm being very fair right now

Brian AtlasI'm trying to be very understanding and come to like I was saying I was saying no to her because you and me aren't done with the done with the exchange oh yeah yeah nothing she he was talking to her yeah I wasn't talking to you uh sorry

Kikowas there more I didn't take this man splaining Kiko take this man SP actually no I'm just kidding you guys can go ahead I'm sorry I'm talking a lot go ahead oh um actually no not let me add

Sheena Ray Reynoldssomething I want to say please it's the topic that I love talking the most I don't know that you were the Great why why I I'm talking about they're going to get on you too but go ahead I know I'm used to to him being like this

Sheena Ray Reynoldsto me um I want to say something you mean very kind yeah but you mean Super over the top but I want to say something about it specifically working with women

Sheena Ray Reynoldsmy whole life okay I can tell you that it's not just that women created the whole facade okay I can tell you firsthand the women create something out

Sheena Ray Reynoldsof nothing that didn't happen just because of the leverage to cry about men where are you from it's so I'm from Israel you're from Israel you say oh you didn't hear it the first 10 times she said it I she I asked her once in case

Kikoyou were wondering Kiko she's from Israel okay well I think CU it is Kiko she's from Israel plays reference because she's talking about our experience in a different all right no

Sheena Ray Reynoldsmonolog though make let me 30 got 30 seconds you let me give me 30 seconds you got 30 seconds Point quick it's not fair first of all

Sheena Ray Reynoldsfirst of all Israel is way more Democrat than [ __ ] get back to the point no but she she think like something in the middle she's not attacking Israel no I'm not saying she's attacking I'm not say why you everything I say you take out of

Sheena Ray Reynoldscontext oh my God I'm saying it's way more liberal than here unfortunately you understand it's way more Liberal Liberal but what I want to say is that women

Sheena Ray Reynoldshave they we stop it guys it's not fair I come here because I want to my point of views too but women women have women wait women have way more to manipulate

Sheena Ray Reynoldsmen way more ways to manipulate men men not even the tip of the ice manipulating women the same you understand how do how do weate them first of all by fake boobs

Sheena Ray Reynoldsand big ass yes exactly then that's their fault exactly wait no wait wait wait wait hold on hold on you can't look oh my God I can't talk you guys stopping me every two seconds because you're literally me and Kiko were having an

Brian Atlasexchange I don't disagree with what you're about to say or what you just said it's not you need to you need to make it related to the actual

Brian Atlasconversation that's being had not what does female manipulation have there it pertains to nothing no you don't you don't let me you have 20 seconds to establish no no she doesn't listen

Andrew Wilsonhere's the thing here's the thing you got what's called main main character syndrome it's a big panel it's a big panel you've been here a bunch we do like your input and you're going to get plenty of time to have input and this subject it's going to come back around

Andrew Wilsonright but let other people have their exchanges I've been letting them have their exchanges and I'm a way bigger main character than you so I mean let's be

Lexireal patriarchy if you're going to have to what you say I said it's because of the patriarchy immediately I was like

Brian AtlasI'm just kidding I'm just kidding hold on I didn't I didn't look look if you're going to do one of the can I say something you better be sure

Sheena Ray Reynoldsit pertains to the actual conversation at hand not when I have HD and you stop me every two seconds HD H okay I'm going to give you 20 seconds what the f it's

Kikoautism I'm going stop it you can laugh you want but you know exactly what you're doing you're not letting you speak you're like in purpose it didn't it just went down the wrong P

Brian Atlaslet you speak it smells damn good here Brian that's cool so sorry I'm going to give you smells good as I'm going to give you 20 seconds to and within that

Brian Atlas20 seconds what you're saying has to pertain to the actual conversation being had I don't care if you're about to say some super B [ __ ] if it ain't related to the conversation I don't question I

Andrew Wilsonanswer she when the [ __ ] did she ask ask me three times where are you from where are you from one time I only got 2 minutes to explain God like you got 90 seconds Make It Count bro I don't know

Brian Atlaswhat it is about me that trigger you all the time you going off with me for no reason her asking where you from that's a that's a a non few she said you're from Israel go back to the actual conversation no but she said you're not

Brian Atlasfrom here it's not the same there so I tried to explain that it's even worse you said you've been here for 15 years and your 50 stop stop stop before she

Brian Atlasasked you about Israel you wanted to say something about the actual con ation that was being had you're allowed to

Brian Atlascome in on the actual conversation that was being had Kiko throughout a nonsecular about is it's okay you can go on I'm sorry okay well then it sounds

Sheena Ray Reynoldslike it resolve I love it thank you it's not like you guys ganging up on nobody's ganging up on you but you got to be on

TTS/Donation readertop shut up boys Ru women five L women W men long the patriarchy not one step back not one step back put women in the kitchen again

Andrew Wilsonuhoh okay now look Kiko I agree with the Super Chat thanks for the $200 at least you're out of [ __ ] control keep it together I thought I was doing good so sorry you are doing good unreal I appreciate you I

Brian Atlaswill be quiet okay it's easier that way for me and uh oh we need to do the cheers we need to pop another bottle but no [ __ ] way it's Christmas all right so

Brian Atlasuh all right so uh this is for a cheers to just Gerald uh here's to Gerald thank you so much for all your patronage this

Brian Atlasyear man really appreciate it uh salute salute Jaren or what is it Jaren jald justd he doesn't even have a last name just Gerald he was born he was he was

Brian Atlasjust GI like he's Prince don't [ __ ] up just Gerald's lore bro he's like Prince um just okay we have this one coming through great time Danny Bor it's all

TTS/Donation readerbecause of me you're welcome definitely crushing Hearts here but can't you just let a guy H dream wishing you guys all a happy holiday season and sending good

Kikovibes your way again the orange top girl gorgeous Danny Boy your simp level is 8,000 dude again I was like I was not trying to crush your dreams wait wait what do I

Andrew Wilsonmean I have not had a relationship with a guy oh wait a second that's a little different have you had carnal knowledge of a man yes because I it was like my whole

Andrew Wilsonacceptance Journey that that word they use means by the way this confirms this confirms my theory all lesbians have hopped on the pogo stick I'm just saying no that's called wife had not actually

Kikothat's called a gold star lesbian a gold star lesbian has never been with a man right that's the ter yeah what I'm saying is that there's no such thing her

Lexiex her ex lied no I really her ex lied I think we can both age there's some woman you can look at and just know they haven't done that I was literally there

Brian Atlasfor all of my onscroll friends no men were involved I promise sure all right uh oh we need to do a um Daman we need to do a reaction to the uh pull up the

Andrew Wilsonthe message that I had with the two girls who were super late y by the way can I take a quick second to just point out how proud I am of Brian that monologue brilliant his anti feminism

Andrew Wilsonthrough the roof I'm like a proud older brother leaving this year like a proud older brother very happy for Brian oh there you go yeah and you didn't mention

Brian Atlaslike video games once wait what well he started with that I did second with the sh with the sh all right let's pull it up pull it up pull it up make it bigger make it bigger all right so guys we had

Brian Atlasthis girl make it bigger make it bigger make it bigger scroll down hide scroll down scroll uh scroll down scroll down there uh we literally drove through out to get here and you guys never said

Brian Atlasnothing to our arrival that's unprofessional you guys could have texted or said something it is not late to start either it's barely 5:30 we told you the start time oh sorry we I meant

Brian Atlasto I should have said we told you the meet time which was 400 p.m. sharp very clear mind you this girl flaked previously mind you very clear in in the instructions we send we say be here at

Brian Atlas400 p.m. arrive early if you can and in addition to this we also say like um uh what do we say we say uh use the arrive by feature most of these navigation apps

Brian Atlashave an arrive by feature where if you like it could be 3 days prior and you put it in I want to arrive at 400 p.m. sharp on this day it's very accurate it

Brian Atlasaccounts for traffic uh Google whatever Google Maps so I said sorry but you guys so basically they got here super late and I was like well you guys are too late you're not going to be on the show and she says yeah well that's still so

Brian Atlasmessed up you guys were texting this chick knew the r arrival time so why wouldn't you say something like no way too late so initially she said they'd be here at 4:40 and we were even willing to allow them to come 40 minutes late but

Brian Atlasthen they sent me a navigation update saying it'd be 5:15 and I was like you're not going to be 75 minutes late and so basically uh this is the kind of [ __ ] I'm dealing with every single show

Brian Atlasis people blowing up at me they get mad at me because they're late every show they blow me up they call me a [ __ ] [ __ ] unprofessional now go to the the uh yeah wouldn't that be the opposite

Kikowouldn't the professional thing be to be on time well exactly and then go to the spreadsheet you guys were all on time the spreadsheet mostly I was late but I told him earlier you got here the same

Brian Atlastime I did yeah you he goes fine I mean look it uh dark I got here at 45 I told him though all right you got the spreadsheet come on all right uh so guys

KikoI've been keeping tabs guys of oh put this on the other side flakes i' I've been keeping tabs so what is that [ __ ] my bad I didn't what is that do you want

Brian Atlasa Maga hat will you put on put on the mag hat K put on the mag hat okay so anyways guys I've been keeping [ __ ] so 2022 we started the podcast summer

Brian Atlas2022 that's why you don't buy bartend I don't have data I don't have data but uh it was more than this but I was being conservative so for 2022 we did 43 shows

Brian Atlaswe had about it was more like 3x flakes per show 129 total 2022 flakes 376 flakes total in 2023 16 was the most amount of flakes in one day 5 day with

Brian Atlas10 plus flakes flakes in 2024 11 days with 10 plus flakes 14 is the most amount of flakes in one day and we had that happen twice we had 628 total flakes so you see that

Brian Atlasconversation I was having with that woman uh I had that same conversation where some woman or well I mean

Brian Atlasthe where where the like I said proud older brother I'm very happy very happy with the progress take another drink you should see how you to deal with this

Brian Atlashold on and so uh 628 total flx guys I'm having convers this other girl this other girl says some [ __ ] earlier

Brian Atlastoday like oh um yeah so uh I'm I'm going to be 10 minutes late and it would be embarrassing for me to show up late so I'm just not going to come and I'm like don't you realize that it's a

Brian Atlasbigger [ __ ] issue for you to be to just not show up then you have a minor degree of embarrassment by being 10 minutes late that's solipsism it's

Brian Atlas[ __ ] up I'm dealing with this [ __ ] every [ __ ] show 600 times this year I've had some girl thank you

Brian Atlas628 628 times this year uh I'm dealing with women getting mad at me because they're late that they flake and but Brian how do you explain the fact that

Kikothat you've kept a flowchart of this what do you mean why wouldn't I I know the episode that this started when you were so pissed like half the table

Brian Atlasdidn't show up oh yeah it's it's bad it's bad it's bad anyways um so look we keep we keep stats and data bro sounds like you're reaching out

Andrew Wilsonhere oh wait we need to pop the other champagne B we do we do another one yeah they've been buying them for us so Brian you're paying for my Uber or what yeah whatever podcast will take care of your

Brian AtlasUber this evening thank you that's fine um um it's like 10 minutes away you're [ __ ] driving no I'm not I Uber here I'm joking I'm joking I saw you all drinking on other podcast like don't you

Brian Atlasdon't need to take have drink you don't have to drink I I I need to don't to drink I need to you don't need to drink or we can pour you like a sliver I was already plan on

Kikobuying just testing my I'm not an alcoholic cuz I don't need it to be here but if it's here you do need to drink I'm going to drink it real sh I mean real [ __ ] it's like [ __ ] oh my God

Andrew Wilsonyou're good you're good it's good so was that on camera nobody died nobody died you see guys see that on camera fcking hilarious nobody died see on camera was that on camera

Brian Atlasthe way that my instinct was like wanting to duck oh that was already 10 years ago dude there's a [ __ ] dent in the ceiling

Kikoboys oh my God that was right now yeah that is wild I oh they will never notice that though just

Kikokidding that was there before okay I was like that did not like no way that that just happened landlord all right uh no wonder they hate proof not getting that I'm sorry

Brian Atlasit's going on the Discord Brian has bted ceilings we're good if you can uh pour for everybody else all right let's get back to the show guys I there no more champagne let's get back to the show

Brian Atlasboys let's get back to the show um uh if you guys want me to also continue to lose my security deposit uh for the studio champagne pops are half

Brian Atlasoff um two years ago they're half off did you just reduce the price no it's well it's a $500 for champ pain pops but normally it's a thousand but it's half off for the final show so maybe we

Brian Atlasshould get I need to get into actually wait hold on well it's going to take like three more you had disagreements yeah in the DMS did you read it not that anybody uh

Brian AtlasI think I may have it down here wait hold on here cuz it's not like super dating related wait but disagreements it was the most recent

Amandaone you said that female subservience no the most recent DM I sent I mean that one's one sure you don't recall your own position or well okay cuz it's not

Amandaexactly dating related so I wanted to make sure you wanted to like bring it up it's like related to the show and what is brought up on the show do you have a disagreement with the show though yeah I guess um that like oh it shouldn't be

Amandacalled a dating podcast yeah and then it also seems like patriarchy is you guys have a stance that that's kind of the way to go well not me me and Andre I kind of like differ a little bit on

Brian Atlasthis okay so what's your well I don't believe there's a patriarchy I believe Society is gynocentric um elaborate yeah so essentially like there's this idea that

Brian AtlasSociety it's kind of like for the benefit I mean it depends on your there's I hear different definitions from feminists like I've heard the definition of patriarchy at by the way I'm drunk so I'm losing it uh I can't

Brian Atlasformulate a coherent sentence here what I've heard as one example of patriarchy so a society built by men for men right okay yes but so I

Brian Atlasdisagree with the part where it's for men I think Society is far more G gynocentric in so far as like Society panders to women okay I don't disagree

Lexiwith that I don't but I also think that the patriarchy has created systems that are both detrimental to both men and women um so I I I'm kind of like a mix

Amandaviewpoint on that but any this this was your I'll let you talk I guess okay so I thought you had a similar belief to Andrew that you also thought patriarchy was cuz I also don't I don't think we

Amandalive in a patriarchy I also don't agree with like egalitarianism I think we kind of in the United States at least have this belief of a meritocracy but I think

Amandait's kind of like a myth um I think it would be good like a meritocracy a meritocracy these are really big words

Amandafor no we just or for poison dart frog as considering that's my name for this podcast I'm wck the exchange man I'll let you have the exchange in the DM I kind of wanted to ask a series of

Amandaquestions for the panel and then see like where it goes that's why I wanted to check with you first well you can you can ask me the questions hold on I I see what this is though I don't know if it's okay it's not like TOS or anything but

Amandait's just no that's why I wanted to double check with you I think it's good for entertainment purposes I want to hear it a meritocracy what's great about a meritocracy well it was kind of the way I was leading up to it okay well

Brian Atlashold on let's we're already really [ __ ] on time so maybe time permitting we can come to it later but you you also said you feel like the show host promotes

Brian Atlastraditional roles and purports it's all based in logic I don't think the only way to have logically in its literal sense success F relationships is for them to follow traditional gender Norms

Amandayeah I think that's more interesting so yeah what's your position that is my position that um successful relationships don't need to follow to a te strict traditional gender roles yeah

Brian Atlasso I mean on an there can be exceptions very sneaky wording by the way why y hang on have the exchange Bri yeah

Brian Atlasso I mean there certainly can like just because something possible one doesn't mean it's probable but I don't disagree like that you could have

Brian Atlasa relationship that does not follow traditional gender roles and it could be a fantastic relationship but in totality accounting for like the the billions of people that

Brian Atlasexist I would say generally speaking yes traditional gender roles are uh optimal okay I mean I don't disagree with with you I it asked for disagreements and I

Amandajust said I don't think the only way to have a successful relationship is to follow traditional gender roles the question was whether dis hosts successful like a long lasting

Andrew Wilsoncommitted relationship do you have obligations and duties of course to Society of course then why would you promote such relationships even if they were successful because then if you're F

Andrew Wilsonlike if you're engaging with those duties and upholding them then well you can't be okay so the idea so the idea here is if you agree that it's optimal to have what

Andrew Wilsonyou whatever you consider traditional gender rules to be you think that's optimal yeah not that it can't work the other

Amandaway from your view just what is optimal then maybe I don't know you don't know what's optimal no I know well well yeah maybe I don't know what's optimal well then what's optimal No Maybe I don't

Andrew Wilsonknow what's optimal you don't know what's optimal do you think that it's uh more optimal to have one parent working one parent home with the kids I do think that's optimal okay well I would even say it's optimal then how

Andrew Wilsoncould you do that absent what you consider traditional gender rules to

Andrew Wilsonbit in your mind you're I let her answer before The Sisterhood chimes in The Sisterhood could you repeat that one more time just so I how if that is optimal can you achieve that absent

Amandatraditional gender roles cuz couldn't you have mhm that one parent be the husband rather than the wife sure is that

Amandaoptimal um I feel like potentially at the beginning no but then well then it's not optimal and why isn't then why couldn't you still say

Amandathen I I don't think it's necessarily optimal for it to be so why would you promote what isn't optimal no no no I okay so may I interject I think you could have something optimal because a

Andrew Wilsontradition a traditional I'm going to just do this and sit this way let's do this a traditional I wish I could it was it's

Andrew Wilsonperformative what I can't a little bit of performative that's not okay scoot back yeah yeah come on that was funny all right right the traditional gender rooll would

Amandabe the woman stays home and the man goes to work and why does the woman need to stay home early on early on it's because she's the mother so she's mothering the child there are certain roles how do you feed how do you feed babies that's what

Andrew WilsonI'm getting to so like only a mother can breastfeed and that's about I think would be it in terms of like what the mother oh if you get into trans breast milk God help you but anyway go ahead

Amandaall right I'm okay she gave me this look but anyway go ahead and we're still just talking about optional I'm not saying that there are things you know that there are different ways to successfully achieve so it's optimal to have the mom

Amandastay home early on because of well when is it no longer optimal I would say once you don't need to breastfeed anymore why would that no longer be optimal because I think that's kind of an optimal

Amandaposition but as long as we're still considering that um as long as one parent is home and that's optimal while the other parent works then I don't see why it still can't be optimal that like after breastfeeding is done that the

Andrew Wilsonfather could stay home and that the mother could work yeah what what's a what's a maternal bond that happens with breastfeeding I'm not sure what you're talking about do children bond with

Andrew Wilsontheir mom better when they're breastfed I'm not sure the answer is yes okay of course they do why like why wouldn't they that's in fact it's part of a bonding experience with children is

Andrew Wilsonthat they breastfeed with their mother okay so if the child's breastfeeding with the mother and then you take Mom away mhm mom and works and now dad stays home how's that

Amandaoptimal so because I mean why is it optimal that the so it's optimal that the baby has a stronger connection to Mom than death yes why wouldn't it be of course oh well

AmandaI mean at least for for the serate years right yeah for these for these for these years leading up serate so okay then the

Andrew Wilsonbonding period when does that kind of become inconsequential like it's I don't think it ever becomes inconsequential I think that when children bond with their mothers

Andrew Wilsonespecially when they breastfeed with them this becomes a lifelong thing there's an old saying right even bad men love their mamas ex right the idea the idea there is there's something which is

Andrew Wilsonmaternal which is necessary to the raising of a child right that Dad can't do dad can give all the material wealth in the world you know what I mean that's great doesn't mean child won't love Dad

Andrew Wilsonit just means that that if you're breastfeeding your child there's going to be a connection there that uh that is distinct and it's different and by the way as far as resources go men generally

Andrew Wilsonare going to be able to provide better resources as well yeah financially yes so if you're just looking at what's optimal if you if you agree that this is optimal in other words if you say okay

Andrew Wilsonnow we have a bonding component we have Mom at home uh mom also may have to stay home for another reason which is that she has more than one kid so if she has more than one kid now she has three four

Andrew Wilsonkids right now she's at home for years breastfeeding right how's that not optimal no I I see what you're saying so if it is optimal right then why wouldn't

Amandawe push for what's optimal because then I still I'll even you know agree with you on everything you've stated but like eventually there comes a point where the

Amandachild or children as an aggregate are old enough that this bonding component is like I guess completed right like that it's not like okay so Mom has three

Andrew Wilsonkids she's at home for 10 years mhm okay and so then and so now so so why would it then be optimal right for Dad to come home andom for Dad for Dad to come home and Mom to work can you explain that to

Amandame I just okay so um no no can you explain that to me explain so but cuz then I think it might actually be optimal because say mom could make the same

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next