FINAL SHOW! RAGE QUIT Keeko vs. Andrew Wilson IRL! Shina! Shaman Pro Cuddler?! | Dating Talk #222

Date: 2024-12-18

Duration: 9h 05m

Guests

Brian Atlas

SSheena Ray Reynolds >

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_02Davia(guest)

SPEAKER_03Kiko(guest)

SPEAKER_04Lexi(guest)

SPEAKER_05Amanda(guest)

SPEAKER_06Sheena Ray Reynolds(guest)

SPEAKER_10Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_12Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_14Maria(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian opens the final show of the year: 'I'm your host Brian Atlas.' Sets up the year-end finale atmosphere.

ControversySheena criticizes Davia for staying with a cheating ex-boyfriend. Davia pushes back hard. Lexi mediates. First major panel confrontation of the night — sets up running Davia/Sheena tension throughout the episode.

ControversyDuring the Davia confrontation, Sheena says 'I have a gun' — panel reacts with shock. Brian de-escalates.

ControversyAndrew asks Maria the shaman/animal communicator: if she can communicate with animals, could she ask an animal if it would consent to sex with a human? Maria responds: 'technically there is no problem.' Panel erupts in shock and disgust. Brian is speechless.

OtherA champagne bottle cork hits the ceiling during a celebratory moment, leaving a visible dent. Brian points it out.

ControversySheena uses a TOS-violating word (the r-word) despite prior warnings. Brian gives a final warning and threatens to ask her to leave the show. Sheena apologizes but panel and Brian are visibly frustrated.

QuoteBrian delivers his final warning speech to Sheena: explains clearly that this is her last chance, that she will be asked to leave if she uses TOS-violating language again. The speech is firm but measured.

Key MomentBody count roundtable: Kiko ~23 (disputed from prior episode), Lexi 4, Amanda 11, Maria 46 ('channeled from the angels via shaman reading'), Davia unclear, Sheena did not state, Brian claims virgin.

Key MomentSelf-ratings round: Lexi says 6, Amanda says 9, Maria says 10, Sheena says 8. Brian rates himself a 5 ('really six'). Andrew abstains.

ControversyBrian calls Kiko the f-word (f*ggot) during a confrontation over her repeatedly interrupting and trying to grab pizza. Kiko objects strongly and loudly. Panel reacts — many are shocked. Brian does not back down immediately.

ControversySheena accuses Andrew Wilson of running a 'con artist dating service' — a case of mistaken identity. Andrew fires back hard and aggressively. This triggers a major verbal confrontation between Andrew and Sheena about how he has treated her 'like a piece of shit' throughout the show.

ControversyAndrew and Sheena's major verbal confrontation: Sheena says he treated her like a piece of shit all night; Andrew dismisses this and calls her out on the false dating service accusation. Both raise their voices. Brian has to intervene.

OtherKiko reads hate mail messages during the hate mail session. She reads messages roasting other panelists and eventually calls out Brian while reading a message directed at him.

QuoteBrian announces the final show wrap-up: going on a 3-6 week holiday break. Thanks the panel, the crew, and the audience for an incredible year.

Topics Discussed

Show Intro and Announcements

Brian opens the final show of the year, announces it's the last show before a 3-6 week holiday break. Addresses the panel format, previews the night's guests, and sets the tone for a rowdy year-end finale.

Guest Introductions

Brian goes around the table having all guests introduce themselves: name, age, location, occupation, relationship status. First round: Kiko (bartender, Santa Barbara, in relationship), Lexi (student, OC, open relationship/bisexual), Amanda (law student, lesbian, in relationship), Maria (shaman/pro cuddler, 44, single). Davia and Sheena introduced later (~[0:15:09] and [0:16:59]) due to late arrival. Andrew Wilson last at [0:17:10].

Relationship Status Roundtable

Each panelist describes their relationship situation in detail. Includes Davia's situationship with cheating ex (sparking confrontation with Sheena), Lexi's open relationship, Amanda's lesbian marriage and divorce, Maria's recent breakup and restraining order filing, Sheena's 11-year marriage and 1.5 years single. Extended discussion on staying with cheaters, emotional unavailability, and red flags in modern dating.

Davia vs Sheena Confrontation

Sheena criticizes Davia for staying with a cheating ex-boyfriend. Davia pushes back; Lexi mediates. The conflict escalates with Sheena saying 'I have a gun' during the exchange (~[0:29:32]). The tension between Davia and Sheena persists throughout the episode. This sets up the episode's running interpersonal conflict.

Flake Statistics and Late Guest Messages

Discussion of the two guests who were supposed to appear but flaked. Brian reads their messages aloud to the panel — a mix of excuses and genuine issues. Panel reacts. Discussion of how commonly women flake on the show and what it signals.

Politics, Trump Voting, and Cutting Off Relationships

Panel debates whether it's reasonable to cut off friends or family over political differences (specifically voting for Trump). Lexi says yes, she cuts off people who vote for Trump. Amanda has a nuanced view. Andrew argues this reveals an impoverished social life and political tribalism. Brian contrasts cutting political ties with dating/friendship based on values alignment.

Transactional vs Duty-Based Relationships

Andrew presents his framework: healthy relationships are duty-based (you fulfill your role as husband/wife because it's right, not because of what you get in return). The panel largely operates on a transactional model. Andrew argues transactional thinking leads to instability. Discussion of whether women should submit, what men owe women, and how open relationships fit into this framework.

Transgender Identity and Disclosure Debate

Extended multi-hour debate on: whether trans women are women, whether a trans person must disclose their trans status before sex, whether a man who sleeps with a trans woman is straight or gay, the ethics of non-disclosure, and how biology relates to identity. Amanda (lesbian) argues trans women are women. Andrew argues biological sex is immutable. Brian explores the legal and ethical angles. Multiple panelists share personal takes.

Shaman and Animal Communication Philosophical Debate

Andrew asks Maria (the shaman/animal communicator) whether she could ask an animal via her abilities whether the animal would consent to sex with a human. Maria responds that 'technically there is no problem' — causing widespread shock on the panel. This leads to debate on the limits of spiritual frameworks, the difference between philosophical hypotheticals and real-world ethics, and whether Maria's worldview has any guard rails.

Does Whatever Teach Men to Hate Women

Panel confronts the recurring criticism that the Whatever podcast teaches misogyny. Andrew defends the show as exposing the consequences of feminist dating culture. The female panelists split: some say the show has value, others say it is structured to humiliate women. Brian defends his framing as honest observation, not hate. Discussion of online criticism, cancel attempts, and the show's mission.

Traditional Gender Roles and Patriarchy Debate

Andrew presents the case for traditional gender roles and patriarchy as a functional social structure that protects women and children. Lexi and Amanda resist strongly. Maria takes a spiritual angle. Brian probes whether any of the women would choose a traditional role if they could. Debate on whether feminism has helped or hurt women's happiness statistics.

Bear vs Man in the Forest Debate

The classic 'would you rather encounter a bear or a man alone in the forest' debate. Multiple panelists choose the bear. Andrew and Brian argue this reveals a deeply negative (and statistically unjustified) view of men. Amanda and Lexi defend the choice as a reasonable risk assessment. Extended debate on whether this reflects personal trauma, media-driven fear, or genuine statistical logic.

TTS Roast Intermission

Brian opens a $69/message TTS roast session. Donors send increasingly creative roasts of individual panelists. Sheena receives multiple roasts related to her TOS violations. Maria receives roasts about the animal consent moment. The session temporarily releases tension from earlier confrontations.

Open Relationships Discussion

Panel discusses open relationships in depth following revelations from Lexi (open relationship) and Maria (open to non-monogamy). Andrew makes the case that open relationships are inherently unstable and driven by one partner's desire. Brian asks whether any of the panelists' partners actually wanted the open relationship or just agreed to avoid losing them. Discussion of jealousy, communication, and the real outcomes of open arrangements.

Men as Primary Victims of War

Andrew argues that men are the primary victims of war — they are the ones conscripted, killed, and traumatized. The panel resists. Brian supports Andrew's framing. Lexi argues women are also harmed by war (as refugees, victims of wartime sexual violence, etc.). Andrew: the difference is men are deliberately killed in combat while women are harmed as collateral. Panel debates whether the draft and selective service are feminist issues.

Abortion, Bodily Autonomy, and the Draft

Panel debates the bodily autonomy argument for abortion. Andrew: if bodily autonomy justifies abortion, it also justifies men refusing child support and avoiding the draft. Lexi and Amanda argue these are not comparable situations. Brian explores the asymmetry: women can abort, men cannot compel or prevent birth, yet both are bound financially. Extended debate on equal reproductive rights.

Body Count Roundtable

Brian asks each panelist their body count in turn. Results: Kiko ~23 (disputed), Lexi 4, Amanda 11, Maria 46 (shaman reading), Davia unclear, Sheena did not state, Brian claims virgin. Extended debate on whether body count matters, the difference between men's and women's body count in terms of social value and pair bonding research, and whether caring about body count is hypocritical.

Self-Ratings Round

Panelists rate themselves on a 1-10 scale. Results: Lexi=6, Amanda=9, Maria=10, Sheena=8, Davia unclear (~5-6), Brian=5 (then 'really six'), Andrew abstained. Brian uses the ratings to discuss how self-perception correlates with behavior and relationship choices.

AI Age Filter and Aging Discussion

Brian uses an AI age filter on panelists to show what they'll look like older. Discussion of how aging affects attraction and whether people plan for it. Sheena, at 50, is the clearest case study. Maria takes a spiritual angle about aging and inner beauty. Andrew makes the case for marrying young.

Hate Mail Reading Session

Brian opens a $29/message hate mail TTS session. Kiko reads hate messages directed at various panelists. Messages roast Brian, Sheena, Kiko, and others. Kiko calls Brian out while reading a message. The session becomes increasingly chaotic as the show nears its end.

Patrice O'Neal Clip

Brian plays a clip of Patrice O'Neal discussing relationships and women's hypergamy. Panel reacts. Andrew and Brian use the clip to reinforce their arguments from earlier in the night. The female panelists are largely dismissive of Patrice.

Final Show Wrap-Up and Year-End Thanks

Brian wraps up the final show of the year. Thanks the panel, the crew, and the viewers. Announces the 3-6 week holiday break. Sheena and Andrew have their final confrontation just before wrap. Brian closes the year reflecting on the show's growth and upcoming plans.

Transcript

Page 2 of 10

Andrew Wilsonseriously so I'm saying the people who who are doing things like that I'm like okay like we're we're doing a little too far but leaving the Bible alone for a second okay let just say I'll just be very charitable and say sure you know if

Andrew Wilsonthey're if they're buying Trump B brand Bible That's branded into it or something like this that's that's one step too far for you okay I can I can but what about if they have their truck

Kikodecked out and this type of thing like that's what talk it's like I'm not saying you can't have a vote for Trump sticker or a flag or whatever I'm talking about the ones where like like

Kikoyesterday outside my job there was a truck that had four Flags in the back the the big person has him driving fully encased in if you vote for Kamala estate 500 ft away from me like all those stickers I think that's doing a little

Kikotoo much I think that's creating separation and it's doing more evil than good that's my overarching point and the ones who are just taking it like like they're just making him play out to be like he's some God like those or have an issue with if you want to vote for yeah

Andrew WilsonI understand what you're saying but aren't they doing you a favor because if you're your ideal here is like if you're this into Trump right I wouldn't want to be around you anyway and if they're just

Kikoadvocating that outright then aren't you they doing you a favor I that's fine I don't really care overall but I'm saying I feel like it creates more divide in our country than good is my point because you can vote for whoever you want to but like everyone has the right

Kikoto react how they want they have the right to rep what they want but I just think it does more harm good like you can you can have your propaganda you can have but it's just overarching like I had someone post like even after he won

Kikothey they just put a bunch of like Trump stickers all over my my bar and it's like it's cool like I don't but it's like it's just now you're making them even I feel like look bad like I just I don't think it's but can I tell you

Sheena Ray Reynoldssomething you what you just I respect your point of view but just to show you from the other side they did the same the liberal did the same and even worse when they people got elected like when

Sheena Ray Reynoldswhich election with with uh Biden I've never seen someone with three Biden Flags running around just the fact that they go and chant in a in a really crazy way and scream when you don't agree with them all these psychotic that's attit

Kikowe're both talking about the far Outsiders and that's what I have an issue with I have the same issue with the liberals who do all those things I'm talking about the outliers those are the ones I have an issue liers I don't know outliers like they're not the norm I

Kikodon't think the normal person who voted for Trump is like that and I also don't think the normal person who voted for Biden is like that I personally didn't whatever I'm saying we're both talking about we're talking about the small

Andrew Wilsonmajority that these cities then who have these massive lgbtq parades and things like this and they're completely inundated with rainbow Flags everywhere this type of thing would that be propaganda you would consider

Kikodivisive it's it's about devices divisive is a word right like I I believe yeah aware it's a word no like the word that I'm stuck on I should say um cuz I do think that like when we didn't have the rights we have now I

Kikounderstand understand why the lgbtq Prides parades and things were a thing so I if I'm if I I do believe if I say that there can be lgbtqq pride parade and stuff there could be a trump parade

Kikoor whatever I think it's just an issue but isn't it just as divisive I guess is my question it's more divisive a lot more I wouldn't say more I would say equally I would say they both have their equ I'll just grant it with with with

Andrew Wilsonequal here just for the of it but but if the if the argument is like you're all decked out you got a trump you got the Trump truck you know what I mean it's got the Dixie horn on it like the whole

Andrew Wilsonyou go hey that's really super divisive it's like okay I can grant that right I can grant that people would look at that and see it as divisive but wouldn't you have to say the exact same thing with these kinds of Pride parades which

Sheena Ray Reynoldshappen I just think this is one thing it's it's the president of our country versus not to sound a group that divided the country mean cuz the LGBT I was here in the '90s totally lost what I was

Kikogoing to say listen 90s I totally lost my whole train of thought with that this is yet I'm just I I get what you're saying and I honestly if I'm being 100% honest

DaviaI would like to think more about my overall point about that before I try to point okay I think why it's not the same thing the whole Trump and the like the

Daviagay pride Community is because gays in their Community they had to fight to be accepted into our Trump is literally have been president for how long you after he fought to become

Daviapresident but that is like that's politics but what Poli do with that even more politics you know how much money because like you you have to fight for rights to love someone who you want to

Davialove but Trump is literally fighting for something that half our generation like could like I'm not a voter so I could care less about it but that's the problem yeah you're probably right but there's also me that don't really give a

Davia[ __ ] about politics but yes what I say that it's okay you didn't vote this election no yeah I don't I really don't care because I I don't give a [ __ ] I know what they're talking I didn't vote for Biden versus Trump cuz I thought they were

Lexiboth this one I definitely you're going say some chill out chill no you're going to say some no I'm not I'm not you're literally about to I promised to no I'm not and can I add something then I just

LexiI just like to hear it okay so I think what point you brought up when Trump had to like fight for presidency of course you have to fight for presidency that's literally in the job description it is not in a job description to fight to be

Lexiwith a person who you love so it is not the same thing marage would you say would you say that marriage is part of the American you know like crazy

Lexiwhatever Community however we were brought up American dream marriage white picket fence kids whatever Define okay sure define marriage yeah define

Leximarriage it's uh honestly it's just a commitment for like property it's basically like a legal of the American Dre true that but that's technically

Andrew Wilsonwhat it is marriage in the like idealized sense is love but the thing is is it's not part of the American dream no it never has been the idea the idea

Lexiof so the idea of idea of like a contractual State marriage no it's never been a part of the American dream no but that's what it is that's what it is the the idealized version of it which has

Lexibeen uh basically promoted as the American dream of oh you're going to find some love yeah but it's not and the

Lexipromotion is the device right and that's what makes it of men and women being the only ones getting to be married that is biblical that is traditional what's

Lexiwrong with that well no uh the Bible and the Constitution should not be one and the same that's literally part of the Constitution so it shouldn't decide who gets to love one another I am very

Lexipassionate about this a lot of my family is lgbtq and they had to fight for rights my uncle got HIV cuz he was you know during that time and he had to

Lexifight to get medication to stay alive where if somebody else got a sickness that's not related to being gay they would be treated right away so no gay

Andrew Wilsonpride and everything like that is not divisive it's only divisive if your views make it divisive okay well then well then hang on right just stop for 2 seconds let us have the exchange please

Andrew Wilsonif that's okay with you your majesty anyway no I didn't so so back to this okay what in the world would that have to do with whether or not it's divisive you saying for instance hey wait a second Andrew right they had to do this

Andrew Wilsonbecause a b c and d and it's only divisive because this group over here doesn't like it that's everything that's literally that that would be Trump that would be K that would be so so saying

Andrew Wilsonit's not divisive hang on hang on I just let you go just let you go right so saying that it's Divi it's divisive which is the point there's no way around that it's divisive you're saying it's only divisive cuz this group doesn't

Lexilike it well that's the point of what divisive means right that's everything I can think of okay then uh I'll correct my statement it's it's divisive but it's not as divisive as a political election

Lexiit's not as divisive as something that affects a literal majority of the US population just because somebody has a pride parade that doesn't affect anybody

Andrew Wilsonother than the pride Community yeah but so Nations have foundational morals if if you have a foundational moral all right or some type of foundational

Andrew Wilsonethics and then somebody pushes against those ethics I can't actually think of anything that would ever be more divisive than that ever okay well Define what like for instance let's say if you went to let's say if you went to like an

Andrew WilsonIslamic nation and you were like hey I don't want the women there to wear burkas anymore can you think of anything more divisive than that but I mean I don't think that's comparable most of America a foundational it's a

Lexifoundational system that their societies built around if you go and attack the foundational system the societies you're literally propagating for if somebody that's

Lexioutside inside but the example you gave was outside well it wouldn't matter either way even inside it would be the same thing inside yes it would be divisive but that's part of the people that's part of what they want so aren't

Kikowe the land of the free yeah exactly so we have to I'm being honest like Andrew seriously though like I understand obviously we have our laws we can't just do whatever want it's not a lawless land

Kikobut like I feel like that's one thing with regardless of what your true your own beliefs are we are in America where that's something that we built on being able to do what you're whatever you want

Kikoto do as long as it's not inhibiting someone else's America was about I want it was a l of fre of equal opportunity and that's equality is to get away from

Andrew Wilsontyrants and to be able to create your own future the very first thing that happened in the United States after After the Revolution was George Washington instituted a whiskey tax

Andrew Wilsonraised the militia and attacked his own countrymen to collect revenue from them it's the very first thing that happened okay no this was not a land which was to be pursuant under anything but what do

Andrew Wilsonwe what what do we CL today hang hang on just relax for a second I I'll get I'll get right into it I promise no our foundational principles were not based around in fact they were based pretty

Andrew Wilsonspecifically around the idea of God that was in the aration of Independence itself all of the colonies when you talk about the first amendment the and when you're talking about the separation of church and state that doesn't actually

Andrew Wilsonappear in the First Amendment all 13 colonies had a state religion and they did post-constitutional ratification took years for that to erode so every the reason that the 10th Amendment is in

Andrew Wilsonplace in fact is so that they didn't want to tell each of these states which religion they could have but they were never telling them they could not adopt one they looked at them as like small

Andrew Wilsoncountries unto themselves so no when you say like what is a country founded on what are the foundational principles those these aren't them these are new principles came out of you know like 70s radicalism 60s radicalism really had

Lexinothing to do with foundational principles okay so if things can change and they're based off of new principles then why is having gay marriage legal well you still have to conflict with this the same the same ground in

Andrew Wilsonprinciples which are there well why would a pride parade what does that affect versus like when men were walking around half naked in the street and get simulating oral population with each other in front of CH like you think that

Lexithat doesn't bother people if they were on the streets in the public then honestly that's on the parents for letting their kids out to see that um and I wait wait hang on hang on hang on ridiculous why why would that be on the

Sheena Ray Reynoldsparents like let's say you just walk down the street so or you're going to you're going to show support right you don't expect to see that straight people don't do that straight people don't go and show their sexuality let's not say

Sheena Ray Reynoldsdefinitely do no but I mean like yes they do no it's not what I meant it's not what I meant I meant G sorry straight people don't have a parade for the sexuality because they didn't have to fight for their sexuality can't t on

Andrew Wilsonthis for too long because it does dive into the realm of we're we're moving maybe we should just ask act we're moving into too much hang hang on but I know dated woman too hang on hang on but let's but maybe we can like close it

Andrew Wilsonmaybe we can close it this way we can give you the a last word here and then I'll just make a brief response and then we'll move it to kind of the next topic so we don't t on this forever but go ahead oh I said said my piece can I can

Sheena Ray ReynoldsI say so then we're good make it quick make it quick okay what what you don't understand okay and a majority of people here don't understand that it's a lot more than this specific Community cuz

Sheena Ray Reynoldsit's tied to to other things you know to other communities that eventually in the end of the day it's very very politic the these communities get a lot of so whole human right organization money

Sheena Ray Reynoldsokay to go and do all these parades that you see it's not just for the people right to get married and do things it's a lot more than that all right you got to wrap it quick so anyway keep her off yeah yeah yeah I know I know I'm not saying the words you see yeah you don't

Kikoknow you don't how long have you been in America can I ask 15 years 20 but 20 because I feel like it is relevant so so I mean the ultimate the ultimate idea

Andrew Wilsonthat we're talking about is we're talking about a clash of Ethics so if if you attack a foundational ethic that a society is built around so I think that Society is built on religious values all

Andrew Wilsonof them there's not a one that isn't so let's say politics is downwind of culture culture is downwind of theology so there's no culture that on planet Earth that's not inform formed by its God Gods you know what it worships what it doesn't worship it's not any they're

Andrew Wilsonjust they just don't exist it's how human beings seem to function with each other so anytime that those values whatever those symbols are that are inside of that to get kind of attacked act or um you know people are pushing

Andrew Wilsonagainst them they want some sort of change it becomes revolutionary and people hate that right they hate that's like if you're if you're pushing Revolution then that's what people loath

Andrew Wilsonand um you know what happened in the 60s and 70s with the kind of gay rights push they called it a revolution right this is a re rights Revolution right same thing kind of with feminism these are rights revolutions that they're pushing

Andrew Wilsontowards so yeah I can't really think of anything more divisive than that that's super divisive oh bro I he was a [ __ ] mistake go ahead go ahead all right all right we can move on we can move on here

Brian Atlasdid we ever even get through the everyone's dating status how to tell I went to the bathroom I think she's good for now I got her I got her divorced

Andrew Wilsonyeah yeah so anyway moving on moving on from there Brian you got some show notes you want to dive into here yeah yeah when you come back into the camera big dog the door he's coming

Brian Atlashe's coming all right all right um okay so let me do a couple chats here since they're coming in uh we'll do

TTS/Donation readerchats boost the audio Dariel frankcastle 512 donated $200 Andrew I'm a little disappointed in that comment I sleep 3 hours just to

Andrew Wilsonwake up to catch Rose tower on my way to work even for The Crucible too just thought maybe just this once it would be cool for what what does he talk what is he referencing the TTS being lowered

Andrew Wilsonyeah the lowering of the TTS yeah it's a joke dude calm down calm down Dariel we're joking thank you though for the $200 TTS appreciate it man desert Joe donated

TTS/Donation reader$200 like literally this panel is figuratively lit the only one missing on the panel is desirey that is my subjective truth W bricks and W Andrew W

Brian Atlaspopcorn she's Merry Christmas whatever in Crucible hey Merry Christmas the whatever and Crucible crew thank you desert Joe do appreciate it and

Brian Atlasuh uh what oh I'll dude he's doing it at 20 but I'll he's a disappointed uh yeah I don't care what

Brian Atlaswhat they do sorry I mean if it we wouldn't be able to have a show it's so distracting interrupts seconds very disruptive at the current price point I mean we lower it later on in the show for people who want to get a a word in

TTS/Donation readerbut it is what it is um we have wrongful rage hey thank you man W's in the chat for rage wrongful rage donated $200 J literally admitted to having a

TTS/Donation readerroster and you ladies were judging her on her worst player she got so mad it made the other five look bad lamu literally a

Brian Atlas304 like Totes My Goats all right yo thank you uh thank you wrongful rage I do appreciate the uh the message Damian can you get him off

Brian Atlashis [ __ ] phone we're getting I can hear the audio hear yeah we can hear it man um we have techn Trooper what are the long-term consequences of PRI

Brian Atlasprioritizing transactional relationships over Ones based on emotional connection and shared values yeah that's actually a really good question so what he's asking is uh if you make a relationship or you

Andrew Wilsonprioritize relationships being transaction rather than honor based or Integrity based or values based but rather I get this you get this and this in modernity comes up all the time right

Andrew Wilsonthink of it think of it in this dialectic yeah I'll stay home and cook and clean if you're making all the money right well that's that becomes transactional right that that's almost viewed

Andrew Wilsontransactional uh or you know as a transaction so what he's asking is would it be better to inform relationships not based on what I get get what you get but based on something some sort of higher

Kikosemblance of values so that's what the question is how would you answer it well let's go around I that's why I believe relationship to be a partnership it's what you each both bring to the table so

Kikowhereas maybe my future it will be that my husband goes to work where I stay home and clean and take care of the kids if something were to happen God forbid and he needs to stay home I'm going to

Kikopick up that extra slack it's not it's not like I do this do that it's we help each other to become whole because no I don't believe any One Singular human being can raise a family successfully

Kikoall on their own so we are both coming together to create this new generation and we help each other we're one Falls we have our roles but sure um yeah I pretty much agree um when it comes to me

Lexiand my boyfriend I don't know where we're going to be in the next like 10 years but our relationship is very much so focused on helping each other out and yes it is transactional but it comes

Lexifrom a place of Love Like if he's if he is hurting one month obviously I'm going to chip in and like help him out through it if I'm hurting because I have like

Lexicustody of my sister and sometimes you know budget gets a little scarce um it is transactional but it's not solely transactional well could that be viewed could that be viewed as investment

Andrew Wilsonthough like it could like oh I'm in I'm okay so this month you're hurting I'll take care of the slack but but that's actually an investment because in a couple months maybe this happens to me and you cover that right it could

Lexitechnically be considered an investment but it goes both ways like I'm not going to be like oh sorry you're having a bad month I'm still kind of struggling from last month so no so actually this

Andrew Wilsoncreates like a great point for parallel yeah so the idea here is should you do those things because you have a duty to not because you think you might get something out of it exactly like I we

Lexiwere helping each other out back when we were just friends with benefits like we had no moral or ethical or relationship like guideline telling us what we should do we just did it because we're both I

Lexiwould like to say we're nice people and like I would do that for anybody in a tough spot um and so it's based off of what you do when you have that

Lexium I guess non-committal like if you just do it out of the kindness of your heart it builds that relationship so I do feel like trans no you're good I do feel like transactions I I got the long pause and

LexiI was like okay anyway go ahead so like transactions I feel like to a certain extent are needed to create the foundation of your relationship okay I think um in a relationship you guys are

Amandaa team and you need to kind of work together to make things work and life is messy and sometimes you're not at you're 100% or your partner's not at 100% you kind of like have to tackle the

Amandasituations together and see like what you bring to the table to kind of help things get solved when problems come up

Mariaokay for me relationships are all about intent what is your intention with this person and from there you just grow but what about the is there a transactional

Marianature to them sometimes yeah yeah it's just living in the society sometimes there is it's just part of the society that we live in if we lived in a different type of society that would not exist for

Mariaexample indigenous people this type of uh conversation wouldn't exist with them so they had some duties they were adhering to the indigenous people yeah yeah everybody in an indigen Community

Mariadepending on their values has a different Duty it just depends on which indigenous group you're referring to Asian indigenous South American indigenous African indigenous

Andrew Wilsonif they're looking at duties I guess I guess what I'm asking is if you're saying they're not looking at it from transactional perspective correct you get this I get this then you get this then I get this in fact team in some

Andrew Wilsonways actually infers transaction in a way right it's like the two of us have these different things that we do and if you do them then I do what I'm supposed to do right and if you fail to do what

Andrew Wilsonyou're supposed to do then I can't operate correctly and etc etc right some almost it almost appears on its face to be transactional so when you say indigenous people for instance they don't have that type of relationship

Andrew Wilsonit's not actional well then what is it exactly okay it depends on the I knew that was coming unfortunate that was a well it's a

Brian Atlasreally big bottle so you know you didn't lose that much no I'm yeah losing what he's worried about but it's still worried about losing a bit of champagne I'm worried about the [ __ ] clean

Kikoup oh yep that's going to a lot of people TOs

Andrew Wilsonguys continue with the conversation pleas care so anyway uh yeah that's what the that's what the idea is is like so what what are the things which would not be transactional then that would be valued there you know honestly for me to really dig deeper into it I would like

Andrew Wilsonthe dictionary definition of transactional means so that I could have a real basis on it I get you get that would that would be it that's a good enough summarization like I give

Andrew Wilsonyou a dollar you give me this IC te that's a transaction so I get you get would be as simplified as I could make the idea of transactional I go to work you do the

Mariadishes okay so then a mother and child go go also into transactional do they yeah in no way because child paying the child brings door to the mother not NE

Mariathe mother wanted well not all mothers necessarily not all mothers well don't you have a duty to take care of the child even if you don't like the child exactly exactly yeah some

LexiI mean I think you do right I think the I think the transaction is your bloodline continues or your your family lineage continues what if it's not your kid even if it's not your kid if there's just if you're just walking down the

Andrew Wilsonstreet right and there's a kid and he's like on a mound of dirt crying as that like you have a duty to take care of that kid right as a human no I mean no wait no I don't think I don't think it's

Kikoa duty I don't feel like a lot of people think it's a duty I think that's just more of like a courtesy yeah courtesy it's a courtesy wait wait wait wait come on come on no let's let's wait no no no break it down we're talking about

Kikocourtes raising a child right so it's like if you have a baby there should not be any transactional value it shouldn't

Kikobe a CT it for take care of yeah but I mean any child in your possession any child that you are responsible for yeah he was talking

Kikoabout just a random child he random child

KikoI'm going to say but she's saying she's saying like that it's different what I'm saying because you're talking about a random child I would say as a human being if you're walking down the street and see a random child crying in dirt it

Kikois your duty to take care of where your parents that's what say I'm not that's heartless as hell if you would see a random baby you wouldn't try to figure out you I would do it out of

Daviathe kindness of my heart as a human as a as as a human being I would not leave the kid on pound of dirt but again I would get pissed off at their parents because sure where is their

Andrew Wilsonparents you hang on hang on hang on so we can explore like real quick just just to make the point let's say you and somebody else were walking at the same you didn't know each other okay he's walking this way

Andrew Wilsonyou're walking this way baby in the dirt crying he just walks by right does nothing you go over and you're like holy [ __ ] there's a baby in the dirt crying right and you like grab him and you're trying to take care of this baby or

Daviawhatever did that guy do something wrong yes okay well then you're what you're saying what you're saying is that there's a duty that's like a dick move like as a person you have you have a duty to take care of that child I don't

Kikoeven really agree with him half the time but I'm just saying like you have a duty as a human being with any conscience you have a duty to take care of a m child what's wrong with with this child you have a moral obligation yes it's wrong

Kikowalk P I get what you're saying of course we would just do that out of the kindness of Our Own Heart of course but regardless if we would do it out of the cents of Our Own Heart it is a duty to

Andrew Wilsontake care of a lost child or right you know yeah I get what this I think you just didn't understand this is the point we're talking we're talking in relationships about the distinction

Andrew Wilsonbetween what are your duties and what's a transaction and so often in modernity the way that this gets kind of parsed up is uh you know if this guy's not cutting the mustard or this girl's not cutting

Andrew Wilsonthe mustard done right I'm not getting the end that I deserve for what I'm putting in right that's the transactional nature of relationships and so what's being asked here is well

Andrew Wilsonare there higher duties other than well I don't feel fulfilled or this transaction's not being completed to my standard is there some other Duty there that should keep you moving in a relationship regardless of that if

Lexiyou're married well I think just communication I mean that's a duty and if you're not feeling fulfilled in one way or for what you previously agreed upon then that's

Lexiwhere communic comes in you can't have a relationship transactional or not without communication so I think that's what is the biggest base of a relationship well then what would you

Lexisay you you have as a duty in a relationship as a duty um I'd say that's not transactional that's not transactional yeah so I think a duty that you have in a relationship is to

Lexialways be open to what the other person is saying cuz you can you can like hear somebody but you're not listening right you can be like oh uhhuh uh-huh yeah totally uhhuh yeah that'll change and

Lexithen not listen and not put action into it I wouldn't I wouldn't consider that transactional that's just if you care about this person you're going to listen even if they're not directly telling you what they want yeah but you also have

Lexiduties to not listen right can you elaborate like what you whatever you would consider verbal abuse to be wouldn't you have a duty to not listen to that uh if somebody's verbally abusing you in a relationship you

Andrew Wilsonshouldn't be in that relationship so well okay okay that's easy to say right but uh anybody who says that well it depends on how you define ver I've been in a verbally abusive relationship let

Andrew Wilsonsay with somebody who for like four years who's just fine and quips off at the mouth and says something mean to you right you could classify that as verbal abuse but you're not leaving them over it you know what I mean I would CU I

Kikowould classify verbal abuse as continuous like it cuz obviously everyone's human and we all have our reaction sometimes that we even we can only can admit ourselves we shouldn't have reacted that way but if you continuously react that way against your

Andrew Wilsonpartner yeah but that's my point I constitute that yeah sure but that's my whole point is like just verbal abuse in and of itself the idea of it happening once or twice right or let's say once a year even right from either party I

Andrew Wilsondon't think that people would normally classify that as relationship ending right this that's a it has to be some kind of pattern it does have to be a pattern for sure I agree it has to be some kind of pattern of of behavior right but then I when you say that

Kikothough then I think about physical abuse and I don't think there should have to be a pattern and I I I I said too I I the first thing I said was that there should be a pattern for it to be verbal abuse but then I thought about it and there shouldn't be a pattern for it to

Kikobe constituted as physical abuse so maybe that's not the right I don't know what the right terminology would be because I do think it is a little different but so that's where the duty ends it's wish it's so this is the idea

Andrew Wilsonis just to ask the the whole idea here is just to ask this right if it's not transactional and there's duties what are they if you say well I have a duty to they have a duty to listen to everything I say it's like for me it's

Andrew Wilsonnot transaction well maybe but when you think when you when you think that through that doesn't make too much list but there's a difference between listening and believing yeah but I don't do you even really have a duty to listen

Lexito everything everybody says I mean no no not really even with your partner right what I'm saying is you have a duty to to like I said listen and not ignore like that that's what I'm saying so if

LexiI'm sitting down with my boyfriend and I'm like hey I really didn't like how you like kiss that girl at my birthday party that was kind of like night supposed to be about

Andrew Wilsonme that never happens that's a fake scenario so is it verbal abuse when my wife is she likes to talk a lot right and uh like all the time and uh is it verbal abuse when I'm playing an Xbox

Andrew Wilsonand I'm in the middle of mission three on you know and I'm like you know literally gunning people down in this game and I'm having a good time and she comes in and she's like and I'm like sh

Andrew WilsonI don't want to hear it no if you said shut the [ __ ] up [ __ ] that's a little different yeah what well what about well sometimes I qup like that I'm like shut

Kikoup I'm busy playing games but shut up stupid [ __ ] it's like it's all about so the thing is if you say no then the idea here is like then the duty for

Lexithis listening thing is very confusing isn't it so yeah um I think we're going a little too deep into it I just meant like if your partner comes up to you and

Lexiis like oh my God I love that restaurant that we went to last night you know maybe plan an anniversary around that like listening to the small details and taking into account what they really like because that's going to be out of the kindness of your own heart they're

Lexinot asking you to take them out to that restaurant again you're just doing that out of the kindness of your own heart that I feel like is really fundamental because I'm the type of person that loves when somebody remembers a small

Lexidetail about me it could be as simple as like oh I love Hot Cheetos and somebody bring me like one of those tiny $1 bags of sounds very transactional how how is that transactional though if you're not

Andrew Wilsonexpecting it not well the the idea here is is like I like this thing right you do this thing for me then I happy well when you it's like it's like it's like

Kikoswiping your credit card transactional is like about how many times right like like you said I do dishes you go work right that's the transaction but if you

Kikocan't go to work for for a year whatever it is and I still do dishes I go to work it's no longer a transaction because that's when like yeah if you if you have that agreement with your partner and the

Andrew Wilsonone time they can't do it you're like sayara that's transactional you have understand and discretion I'll just end it here before so Brian can move it on right we'll just end it very quickly

Andrew Wilsonokay so the idea I just have one question if you're in a relationship right and it's it's heavily on the transactional side you don't feel like there's necessarily a ton of Greater

Kikoduties and you don't feel fulfilled in that relationship should you leave the relationship not without talking about at first relationship is different than marriage because I believe once there's

Kikomarriage involved you have a duty relationship you should be finding your one true match that you don't have like it it should be obviously you have issues but it should be pretty easy before you have a mortgage and kids

Lexiinvolved you should be pretty aligned and connected fulfilled um I would have a conversation with my partner about it if I'm not feeling fulfilled in the relationship uh

Lexithat could actually be my doing you know that could be my fault because I'm not you know seeking out friends to hang out with and I'm just totally basing my relationship on their happiness which is

Lexinot healthy that's a codependence thing so um it just sounds like a transactional thing honestly no not really I mean when you're when you make

Lexiyour partner your soul focus and your soul World in my experience I was never expecting anything in return maybe like a couple date nights here and there

Lexiwhich I don't feel like is hard to ask but um it Trans actual it yeah but what I'm saying is communication needs to

TTS/Donation readerhappen before boring Noah donated $500 pop champagne another year gone

TTS/Donation readeranother New Year to make 304s cry Merry Christmas Andrew and Brian thank you and the entire whatever

Brian Atlascrew step back this year one step back yo Noah W's in the chat for Noah uh Noah we're out of champagne bottles but do not fear um I have some coming but we

Brian Atlashave to delay the champagne pop speaking of which the one from picco Stein's we popped it I I uh party fou a bit quite a

Brian Atlasbit uh made a massive mess so uh we'll do quick cheers to pcoin then Noah I'll be sure to get yours once we have the champagne balls in studio cheers to uh Pico Steins Su good time for me to have

TTS/Donation readera smoke and then grid sorry for the delay I had to get up sounds like outside grid One

TTS/Donation readerMotorsports donated $200 And1 it is at this point in the pattle one must wonder what the W and bring to a relationship besides three usable holes and an

Brian Atlasattitude respect to you brickson and Drew for facing this trike weekly you are okay hold on let me just say quick yo grid one thank you for the uh TTS guys W's in the chat for grid one

Brian Atlasit's been a while since we've seen him I appreciate you tuning in here for our last show that's why I have issue sorry for the delay hold on sorry for the delay in uh getting your TTS in I was uh cleaning up the uh champagne but uh

Kikothank you what's your issue with grid one because you're just you're taking a couple people speaking and saying that all women are not like most men I'm not saying it's anything against men I would

Kikosay women as well could not have a family and raise them successfully on their own it takes a community and takes a partnership it is true because you

Kikowill always I'm sorry I know men that raise kids better than women my mother was barely in my life but as a father he was great but he can never be there for me and understand certain things as

Kikoanother woman so that's what I'm saying Versa but he's saying that this but what we're saying is Mak him believing that women are are useless and there's no reason to even have a family with one that's both and that's why I'm saying when he asks us the question on paper

Sheena Ray Reynoldswhat I have a problem with this thing is it divides too much let's come to understanding but don't say you don't need a woman because I would never say I don't need but I want to tell you something now it's fashionable in all the podcast I don't know how to say the correct word but now all the podcast

Kikoit's either men hating on women or women hating on men there's no any more balance everything is radical yeah doesn't make it okay just cuz it is doesn't make it okay that's my whole point is we shouldn't we can have these discussions but just because we debate

Kikoand disagree shouldn't mean that cuz I'm talking about straight right cuz I'm not saying a woman needs a man and a man needs a woman but heterosexually if you want to have a successful family you can

Kikoobviously as a single parent raise a child well but they will be lacking certain things and that's just the god-given truth what's your issue with

Brian Atlashis TTS we've I just said it I'm done she said it okay all right we have daral Frank Castle he says uh Merry Christmas to both of you and Rachel too I know it

Brian Atlaswas a joke looking forward to next year's shoes teiko having s with a transwoman is gay in Chase's voice love

Kikoyou guys turnup 2024 it's been like two and a half years Trum two and a half years and the fact that you paid for that and didn't spell check beforehand is actually insane yeah

Kikoyou kind of did put some disrespect on Trump's name if you're going to pay for something the least you could do is proofread you call him a turnup you can afford it pay for gram C come on yeah let's go spell check how dare you if you

Kikomisspelled Trump's last name I will never hate on someone's grammar but you paid for that so you have the money for education did he made a mistake on writing Trump's name he said t r u n p and that wasn't the first mistake he

Brian Atlasmade in that whole sentiment so you know what that could potentially be a bit of a segue on this topic normally we save it for a little later on but we might as

Brian Atlaswell get into it a bit earlier this also has to do with the questionnaire so um Kiko you disagree it's not so the statement is not straight for a man to dat a transom

Brian Atlasto which you disagree uh I disagree you put a mark through do that is that a maybe it's it depends on what

Lexium so if they're a fully transitioned transwoman and there's like nothing male physique about them at all and they identify as a trans woman and they've done the name change and they put in the

Lexiwork and that is who they are I don't think it's gay to be dating them they don't have any male parts so if they have if they have a you also brought me into this though like side I

LexiI know but she's speaking so you mean postoperatively yeah postop so preop it would be gay then because of the fact of genitalia I

Lexiwould say that it is not a fault of the other person for not being willing to date them um because that is based off of sexual attractivness to

Lexigenitalia and my boyfriend he's straight but he is like I'm not attracted to genitalia at all so like the thought of maybe being with a female transitioning

Lexiyou know male transitioning to female um he it doesn't totally put him off but there would have to be changes you know like they'd have to look feminine cuz he's attracted to

Lexifeminine um but I wouldn't say that it's gay for a fully postop woman um they're a woman so no it's not gay and then no

Brian Atlasno no no no no hold on okay uh you also said that you were maybe on the statement trans transgender individuals have a duty to disclose to romantic Partners to which you say maybe again if

Lexithey're fully transitioned and they look like then no they don't have a they don't have to that's a part of their private medical history they don't need to disclose that of course they do they they have to hold on they I would say that they would have to disclose the

Kikofact that they cannot uh procreate but like okay so if someone has we talking about you said it's not you said they don't have to disclose that's their own medical history so you're telling me

Kikosomeone I sleep with doesn't have to disclose if they have a sexually transmitted disease or something else that's all medical history us the Andrew argument good job trans is not going to rub off on you uh but you said medical

Kikohistory if they no longer have an STD or anything it's I cuz I'm trust me everyone hates me on this podcast because of the things I've said so I'm not trying to do anything against you but it's if you are that is something

Kikothat if you cuz that has to do with your sexual organs at the end of the day so if you've had something done to your sexual organs I feel like I have the right to know that before I am intimate sexually with you it's the same thing about people with AIDS and HIV they're

Kikolike oh you don't have to disclose cuz I I'm on my medication and I'm not transmittable no even if you're not transmittable or not if you have HIV or Aids whatever I I have the right to know that again if I agree with you if

Lexithere's a if there is a factor or a potential of you being physically affected by what they're going through then they have an obligation to tell you but you be physically mentally affected

Sheena Ray Reynoldsif you date someone that you didn't know like if I would go with a man that he was the woman before and I didn't know cuz I really like Alpha Mel and pretend to be alpha male I would be pissed off I would be pissed off like it's

Kikounacceptable completely I know what she said but it's just you have a right to know who who you're with if like if they had a whole different being like I'm so open but if I'm dating someone I have

Kikothe right to know if they were a different whole gender sexuality in high school or whatever like that's things that you need to disclose like that's where that's why people start getting mad because you you someone has they

Kikoshould they have the right to make a conscious decision and anyways if you are trans why do you want to be sleeping with someone who wouldn't want to sleep with you if you were trans like if anything it's for your own safety to disclose something cuz if you're in the room with them if you're in the motel

Kikobed whatever with them and they realize something that's how people get murdered and killed so it's your right to disclose all that information for your own safety yeah it's their right hold on

Brian Atlashold on you guys can have theack Athena you said you disagree that transgendered individual have a duty to disclose to romantic Partners um just

Amandalike about timing I circled it cuz I think it's just more like when I don't know that it's like a I think it should be immediately but like you're meeting on a dating app does it have to be before you go on a date or can it be

Amandalike when you meet them in person you disclose that or maybe like before you guys decide what's your disagreement though where do you think the line is well the timing of the duty because I

Kikothink there's like time of disclosure yeah yeah cuz I don't I agree I don't think you should be like hi my name is Kiko and I'm trans or whatever but on a dating app you should probably have that in your bio that that's what's going on

Brian Atlaswith you if like that's but no no no no no no no you guys can wait to give your position what's your position I just gave it yeah you said

Amandaokay when when does this Duty uh kick in oh so okay for timing yes um yeah I think first date but like in person

Brian Atlasokay so to deceive him until the day too man well I mean we're going to get right back into this I need to allow a few chats to come through because they're ping I mean how deceiving is it though

TTS/Donation readerto be like okay Metro donated $200 if we're drinking you're drinking Brian Kiko good to see you back Legend

TTS/Donation readerdark CIA you'll get smoked by them three I've been with lesbian just takes the right man oo that might be your new

Brian Atlasnickname I guess thank you Metro mat do appreciate the TTS we have grid one here with a response to Kiko thank you Metro Matt grid one good to see you in the

TTS/Donation readerchat grid One Motorsports donated $200 And1 Cent ahh K Zer you miss the point all those around you seek to Champion

TTS/Donation readerdegeneracy the question is what do these wman offer and you could not answer all that agency zero account

Kikoability I was just saying regardless of what cuz obviously every individual woman is different right but in retrospect someone needs to work someone needs to take care of the kids someone

Kikoneeds to birth the kids so as a man regardless even if you get a surrogate or whatever you need a man to have a family and that's what I'm talking about I'm not talking about a day-to-day life whatever but like if you want to live a

Brian Atlasgood life with a family a woman needs to be involved in some point mhm we have three readable chats we have L paladins here we'll have a conversation about it translation I'm unhappy I'm

Brian Atlasleaving you you should have done more to keep me happy every man can relate it's always a blind side I don't I think this pertains to the previous conversation is it directed at yeah yeah well it's not directed at anybody he's uh he's just

Andrew Wilsonpointing out that when you're you're having the Duty versus transaction argument uh that it it does seem to always just kind of reduce back to transaction and not Duty that's that's he's pointing out okay uh meet the

Brian AtlasKaiser Andrew and Kiko agreeing it's a Christmas miracle Hallelujah next the blind will see and

Brian Atlasthe lame will be able to open the champagne well that is this do that it rude rude Kaiser couldn't resist one more TTS merry Christmas and happy 2025

Brian Atlasto whatever in The Crucible uh W's in the chat for Kaiser W's in the chat for LOL paladins and W's in the chat for grid one we do have another one here from L paladins he says you can chop off your peen you can get silicone bolted up

Brian Atlasto your chest even inject chemicals into your body that doesn't make you a woman you will always have male chromosomes mental disorder quick response from anybody on this I agree on that completely I was

Lexihoping for somebody who disagrees but you already I disagree okay um honestly like throughout history and certain indigenous tribes and everything there wasn't a hard definition for sexuality

Leximore feminine were seen as more spiritual it wasn't considered a mental disorder until you're talking about the two spirit yeah the two spirit it's all fake all fake oh fake yeah it came from

Andrew Wilsona single Spanish uh Envoy uh I don't remember the word started with a B I can't remember what he called them but uh it was just with one one particular tribe roughly translated to something

Andrew Wilsonlike two spirit but there was actually there's actually no serious documentation for the idea of two spirit of Native Americans well I can speak as someone who's raised a lot of pagan communities which did

Lexicome before Christianity um we'll just say that um we also don't view sexuality based off of what you are born with they did in fact the early Pagan tribes

Andrew Wilsonespecially the Germanic tribes they um they actually executed they actually executed people in samesex relationship

Andrew Wilsonand this was this was actually well documented by the Greeks especially by the early Greek philosophers because they were studying Pagan tribes okay Greeks and Romans who also had same-sex

Andrew Wilsonrelationships with alter boys they yeah yeah hang on which which pagans are we talking about well usually when people say pagans they're not referring to uh Greeks they're not referring to Romans

Andrew Wilsonthey're usually referring to Barbarian tribes which were later conquered by the Romans so when people say like I have a Pagan religion they're not talking about Romans so almost almost no Pagan goes

Andrew Wilsonfor that they're usually going for the more tribal paganism right like specifically cuz you said German is that what you Germanic tribes PS there was many there was many different Sur the

Lexibritans uh all of these different tribes yeah they uh they came down pretty hard on it actually surprisingly so uh not surprisingly those are not the most popular ones that stuck around and

Lexithat's not what has basically trickled down if you look into a viking um they killed them not all of them they did I'm I'm serious listen I'm serious I'm so sorry Vikings listen what you well first

Andrew Wilsonof all they didn't call themselves Vikings that was we call them Vikings yes okay but uh but yeah the the Nordic pagans yeah they were not not fans not

Lexinot the ones that we commonly know my dad is uh Pagan Nordic um I don't associate with that but also we have Druid paganism we have the um that they

Andrew Wilsonweren't pagans of the whole Loki like Loki turning into a horse and humping another horse and the Very different Legends which around the mythology yeah but but these but these mythologies are

Andrew Wilsonbased around remember I was saying culture comes from the ethos of of the religion right and so if you if you study if you study um especially Nordic

Andrew Wilsongods right uh no they were uh they were they were not fan with women they seem to not care as much but with men it because there was such a dominance culture that was a nogo so Loki who

Andrew Wilsoncould change into a woman mhm yeah but the idea was Loki's the trickster God right yeah but the idea the idea with the trickster God is like

Andrew Wilsonyou don't want to be tricked cuz this is bad this is bad right that's the idea yeah that's the idea that's not the execution though it well I mean that I'm just telling you how those cultures

Andrew Wilsonviewed it yeah yeah trickery trickery yeah and that's why going back going back to your earlier argument here right so I was thinking about what you were saying on on disclosure and and maybe I

Andrew Wilsoncan bring some clarification to it thinking what's a really good way to show and demonstrate my side of this so I'll do it this way you do you know that there's like apps where you can download

Andrew Wilsonthe app and it'll show you every sex predator that's in your like radius right do you think we should get rid of those apps no no well wait that's really weird though because that's not going to

Andrew Wilsonlike rub off on somebody it's not going to like rub off on them if you date they discl their history why do you deserve to know their hist they have assaulted

Andrew Wilsonother people but that doesn't mean that they will assault you so you're comparing so why do you deserve no I'm not here's the analogy here's the

Andrew Wilsonanalogy people on a registry anytime you test logic anytime you test logic you're going to be comparing two different things there's no way comparable but why are they not comparable they're not

Andrew Wilsoncomparable because being trans yourself does not affect another person neither does you being a person who has done something which puts you on that sex registry how does that

Andrew Wilsonaffect you I'm sorry so you're saying it's the the victim's fault for them being on a sex registry has nothing no no no I'm not I'm not call even calling them victims or anything like this I'm just

Andrew Wilsontesting well how do you get on a sex your logic you did bad thing you're on this registry right but tell me something why do you deserve to know that why do you deserve to know that

Andrew Wilsonbecause that person has hurt other people so what that doesn't mean that person is going to hurt you okay but how is that comparable to a trans because it's a because if you feel like you

Andrew Wilsondeserve to have this thing disclosed to you just just based on your Fe well then why wouldn't you Advocate to get rid of those apps because it's different scenarios yeah but but here's the thing comparable since these person these

Andrew Wilsonpeople are not actually there's no there's no way for you to determine they would ever hurt you in a million years or do anything bad to you in a million zillion years you have no way to actually make that determination yet you

Andrew Wilsonlook at this and you say that informs your decision on what you would or would not do with this person and so you say this informs my decision I deserve to know that and that's why you deserve to be on that registry because they've

Kikospecifically hurt another human no but no no no here's the point though you can be technically you could be on the sex registry for on the sidewalk as a man

Kikoright to the partner to make that discretion if that's something they're okay with so you disclose to them hey I'm on the sex registry it's just because I pissed on the sidewalk

Kikowhatever so it's up to you as a trans partner to tell them hey I'm trans I start it when I was young it's up to their discretion were the case that all trans people let's say

Andrew Wilsonjust like just like um were put on a similar sort of registration just like people were put on a sex registration not advocating they are I'm just saying hypothetically if they were do you think that that would if people were informed

Lexiof that they would make different decisions with them potentially and so so then the idea right so this is the same the same concept all of this to say I never said that they shouldn't

Lexidisclose the information I'm just saying that they are not obligated to um especially if they are fully transition the whole point it depends in my in my opinion it depends on how emotionally

Kikoinvested you are with somebody if you feel safe enough to open up to them and tell them hey yeah I'm trans a that's the thing if you if you are hooking up with someone that you don't feel safe

Kikoenough to disclose the fact that you're trans to what happens when you're alone in the room with them and they find out that you're trans how would they find out sometimes they figure out they find out but like if they you're if you're

Kikocuz you said if they're safe enough to disclose it then they can disclose it if they're not safe enough to disclose the fact that they're trans then they shouldn't be around that person I yeah so so that's the whole point is why you should just disclose it cuz if you can't

Brian Atlasdisclose it then you shouldn't be with them so I I just have a a few things to go back and forth here so your position before is you said that if they fully transitioned and this includes operative

Lexisurgery on their genitalia that in that scenario there is no duty to disclose there's no yeah there's Noy but moral obligation again it's the

Lexiit's the debate between Duty and moral obligation of conflate the I agree I think it is that's what obligation is our synonyms almost obligation is a duty debate and you

Brian Atlascan't agree on let's change it then let's remove Duty should transgender individuals disclose to romantic partners that they're transgender to romantic Partners yes sure okay but it

Brian Atlassounds like so just to be clear though even if they've had operative procedures wait what wait wait hang on this makes no sense I do if a trans but hang on on this makes no sense

Andrew Wilsonbecause if if a trans partner should disclose to a person they having a romantic relationship with then why would they ever go on a date with a person without disclosing that exactly

Lexiuh well if you're in the scenario of like dating apps it's dangerous to put that on dating apps because somebody who wouldn't it be more dangerous to go on a date with them without telling them no of course yes people got murdered like

Lexithis yeah yeah so okay people get murdered when they put their information on dating apps and then get lured in by psychos but if if a guy go out with a woman that she's not originally a woman

Lexiand he's really a alpha male he's going to take it personal and get pissed off okay so you're saying that it's the trans person's fault for being trans for being murdered yeah it's a bad argument a trans so you're saying it's their

Lexitheir fault for the person that they go out on a date with if they decide oh you lied to me I'm going to murder you no I'm not you're saying that that's an hang on hang on listen she's actually right what you're talking about is called the trans Panic defense terrible

Andrew Wilsondefense you shouldn't make it you're going to get wrecked on it I just wouldn't do it so but anyway I'm not agreeing that they should die I'm not agreeing that they should die okay all

Brian Atlasright so on the safety thing though um it would occur to me that you because you bring up safety right if they disclose on the dating apps it's a safety concern for them now I don't

Brian Atlasthink that violence is warranted in this sort of situation but the reality of the situation is it it wouldn't the trans individual be safer again I'm not saying violence is good there shouldn't be no

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next