DEBATE REMATCH! DATE ! DRAMA! BIG DAY! BIG NEWS! REACTS! CHILL STREAM! | Whatever Wednesday #4

Date: 2025-10-16

Duration: 4h 39m

Guests

Brian Atlas

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_01Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_08Shona Alan(guest)

Key Moments

IntroBrian introduces Shona as returning guest for debate-date format

Key MomentBrian's old social experiment: almost no women said yes to sex. Shona does female version: near 100% yes rate.

QuotePasty George offers iPhone Air for makeup removal; Shona refuses

Key MomentShona reveals family wealth: father was energy company exec, $60K/yr private school

Topics Discussed

Hassan Dog Shocking

React to Hassan Piker shocking his dog on stream.

Sunday Show Recap

Feral woman who said Brian should get 'Charlie Kirked.'

Old Social Experiment Videos

Brian's 2015 'asking girls for sex' videos. Shona does female version with near 100% yes rate.

Beauty Standards Debate

Who settles more in couples? Do women face stricter beauty standards?

Shona Makeup Removal Refused

$500 bounty + iPhone Air offered; Shona refuses. Shows without-makeup photos instead.

Shona Family Background

Father: former energy exec, multi-million payout. Private school $60K/yr.

USAID Birth Control Destruction

Trump/USAID contraceptives in Belgium warehouse sent to waste disposal.

Transcript

Page 2 of 5

Brian Atlascamera a little bit. >> Hold on, guys. Keep going. Keep talking. >> Why is everyone saying big >> They're saying big. cuz I was asking

Shona Alanthem which angle they prefer. >> Oh, >> see if this is better. Man, I'm red. >> Oh, they want they want us to watch some of Charlie Kirk's content and reassess my thoughts. >> Oh, yeah. We could do that, too. We'll

Shona Alando that. >> Could do. >> Did my TA respond? Hold on. >> Did your tea respond? >> My TA? >> Oh, hold on. All right, chat. >> I don't have section today.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, >> would you look at that? Yo, boys. >> Guys, it was meant to be here. >> Do we mute the colors a little bit because I'm I'm red.

Brian AtlasYo, chat, do we uh Brian needs a lot for his camera? Blotchy. Brian, bros red. I can't.

Brian Atlas>> Do you have rosacea? >> Uh, something like that. You like the natural look better? All right. >> I need his blush, guys. I'm a tomato right now. What the [ __ ] >> I put on blush this morning and his

Brian Atlasshows up. >> It's overexposed. It looks fine to me. You look tired, Brian. Brian is pink. >> Accept your flustered look, Brian.

Brian Atlas>> I don't know what it is. I don't know. Uh, okay. Mute it so you don't lose viewership. Mute it so you don't lose >> it. I'm an it.

Brian Atlas>> Too bright. The camera's too bright. It looks fine to me. I don't know. >> Is this how you usually have it? >> I think the exposure is just normal.

Brian AtlasHold on. I'll look really quick. Maybe maybe it looks different on YouTube. Oh, yeah. I should post this on the Discord. >> I'll look really quick.

Brian Atlas>> Uh, it looks I mean it's I kind of think it looks fine. Lighting is garbage. Turn down the gamma.

Brian AtlasWhat's wrong with bright? I look like AI. I don't know. Uh, whatever. Hold on. Let me >> Isn't that a compliment if you look like AI?

Brian Atlas>> Maybe. I think it looks fine. I don't like shadows really. I think shadows Whoops. Uh, new video alert here. Let's just do >> My goodness, these thumbnails.

Brian Atlas>> Whatever. Wait. Whatever Wednesday is live. I forgot to announce it on Discord. Everyone >> is this like a Discord of your super fans or just everyone?

Brian Atlas>> Uh well just my Discord for it's the whatever Discord. >> Guys, if discord.gg whatever. Uh let me see if there's anything else I

Brian Atlaswanted to pull up in the Discord. Maybe I can show it behind the scenes. Did I Yo, chat, did I show you guys? Hold on. Let's go. Window tab.

Brian AtlasChad, did I show you guys this? >> Oh, wait.

Brian Atlas>> I got fire takes. >> Boyfriend, you kidding me? >> Wait, what? Oh, >> no balls. No balls, bro. >> So, I I overlaid this girl who sent me a

Brian Atlasvoice memo asking to be on the show with like she does urban climbing. >> No balls. >> What? >> No balls, bro. I got fired. It's like parkour. >> Chill. Chill. >> Wait, hold on. Let me make sure. Yeah,

Brian Atlaswe're good. All right, hold on. Ah, wait. Okay, I'll play it.

Brian Atlas>> I know. No balls. No balls, bro. I got fire takes. Trust. Trust. I know. >> Hello. Load. Hello.

Brian AtlasOh my. What is going on today? YouTube's not working. Discord's not working. Okay. Well, whatever. >> Whatever. Rude. >> Who's so sassy? >> Who? Me?

SPEAKER_02>> Yeah. >> I'm not sassy. You're sassy. >> All right, let's do some chats. We have some chats coming through. >> Wait, did I already do this one?

SPEAKER_02>> DMAX 603 donated $30? >> I don't think so. Was the feral woman from Monday night the most disgusting guest you've had? If not, who's been the worst? >> Was she? >> She was pretty bad. We've had I'm pretty

Brian Atlassure we've had worse. Who? I'm trying to think who is worse. She might actually because of the

Brian AtlasSo, we've had She was trolling. So, >> was she really though? What if she meant it? >> It's possible, but I'm pretty sure she was trolling. So, we've had guests

Brian Atlaswho've like genuinely meant that [ __ ] But if she's the guest from Sunday, if she was being genuine, authentic because she was talking about

SPEAKER_02like underage [ __ ] then I would have to probably give her most disgusting person we've had on. >> Um, someone bought >> someone donated >> $1309.98. >> Let's go.

SPEAKER_02>> Items $129.98 MSG. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. Uh, speaking

Brian Atlasof guys, merch, we have guys limited edition uh, limited edition merch guys. I I know

Brian AtlasI announced it at the beginning of the stream. We have these are the three. It's only through the rest of October. So, you guys have about two weeks. October 31st, final date you can get it.

Brian AtlasUh, we have three different color t-shirts. Orange. Heather orange. Burnt orange. >> Which one's your favorite? >> We have a hoodie. Uh, I kind of like the heather orange. >> Really? That's like the worst one.

Brian Atlas>> What? Oh, you're just saying >> the texture looks No, this one's the the bright orange is the best. >> What's wrong with the texture of the heather orange? >> It just looks cheaper. >> Well, that's what he when it's heather. >> Just heather. Heather just doesn't look

Brian Atlasnice. It's not as clean of a look. >> I like heather. Um, >> this one's the best. >> Okay. Well, get you know what? Get one. Get one of both. We also have the hoodies. And then we have a Primo hoodie. A little different. Little different.

Brian Atlas>> Why is that one premium? >> Uh the blank. So this one um for some reason the Primo hoodie is like the blank is is like super expensive.

Brian AtlasIt's I don't know. Uh so this is this is still comfortable, but it the blank for this hoodie is a little more >> What's the blank? Oh, just you know how

Brian Atlaslike the when I say blank, it's like the the canvas. So the actual t-shirt. >> Oh, >> no. So the blank would be prior to printing on it. >> So like

Brian Atlas>> does that make sense? >> A little bit. A little bit. >> Probably not. But also I think the TTS should be I think I need to put it I don't know.

SPEAKER_02>> Marriages outdated donated $30. If we divide people based on biology, can we split men up based on race as different races have different abilities? Just

Shona Alanlook at basketball and sprinting versus IT and medicine. >> People like don't differ massively in their ability to do anything based on their race though.

Shona AlanLike a a black man, the average black man is not a lot different biologically than the average white man in terms of like their ability to do things. It's like obviously they have like different they're different

Brian Atlasphenotypically, but they don't have a massively different ability to do things. >> Are there differences? I I haven't researched this, but are there differences in uh

Brian Atlasmuscle type? Like, is it the case that people who are black tend to have more fast twitch or wait or is it slow twitch? I might sometimes I get those confused. >> There's probably minor differences. Do

Brian Atlassprinters have fast twitch or is it slow twitch? I would assume it's fast twitch,

Brian Atlas>> chat, is it sprint sprinters are fast twitch, right? I would that would kind of make sense, but I don't know sometimes. So, don't they have a higher proportion of fast

Brian Atlastwitch muscle fibers? So that's why you maybe see them like they do better in sprinting um certain like explosive

Brian Atlasuh explosive things like you might see in football for example. So I don't know. Uh thank you marriage. Oh >> George donated $30.

SPEAKER_02>> Yo what's up man. In Canada, the Liberal Party is trying to pass bills C2, C8, and C9 by this Christmas, making Canada an official police state.

Brian Atlas>> Under some of these bills, the government will have many powers. Comm. >> Oh, he's going to You didn't continue it. >> You sent that in 6 minutes ago. Uh, we'll let you continue it in just a sec.

Brian AtlasUh, who cares? Thank you for the for that. People who get offended. It's below the threshold. But same people who decode themselves for money. True. Thank you. Who cares? I recognize your name.

SPEAKER_02Who cares? It's been a minute. >> Okay. He says this. >> Hasty George donated $30. >> Thank you, man. Appreciate it. >> One, to intercept and read civilian emails. Two, to order ISP providers to

SPEAKER_02hand over customers info. Three, criminalization of cash purchases or donations over 10k. Con >> con, he's going to continue. Pacey, if

Brian Atlasthere's another continue, I'll just maybe just so it's more fluid, I'll wait for all of them to come through. Uh, what were we talking about though? >> It's kind of scary if that's true.

Brian Atlas>> Yo, Duran Dolls, thank you for the tier one. Piano, thank you for the I should have you thank these people. Thank piano Dean for the primes up.

Brian Atlas>> Are you gonna >> what? >> Thank him. >> Oh, who is this? >> Yeah. So, just uh when it pops up here, I'll do it again. >> Oh, do I thank this person? >> Thank you, Piano Dean. >> Oh, thank you, Piano Dean >> for the prime sub. >> For the prime sub

Shona Alan>> on Twitch. >> On Twitch.tv/ >> whatever. >> Rude. >> I mean, that just helps you, not me. Yeah, but it helps.

Brian Atlas>> Thank you for the for the prime sub. Piano Deian. >> Much appreciated. >> Um, only 1.5. I I don't really promote these streams a

Brian Atlaslot, guys. Like, normally I do quite a bit of promo, but Oh, you know what I should do? Hold on. I'm going to do one thing. Manage. Manage videos. Wait. Custom.

Shona Alan>> Candace Owens. Candace Owens has been I'm I'm a little worried about her actually. >> Why is that? >> Cuz like I mean she had this whole conspiracy about Charlie Kirk's death and I think she it's like a way for her

Brian Atlasto like cope with the death cuz she was really close with him and >> she she's kind of getting very like she's overly con cons conspiring. >> I haven't really kept up with too much of what she said. Wait, can you do me a

Brian Atlasfavor? Do you see this cup here? Can you put it in the corner? like your little soda drinky. >> My little It's an o lollipop. >> Or just put it uh like there. Yeah, just

Brian Atlasso it's out of frame. >> Oh [ __ ] Mads. Thank for the gifted 10 memberships. Appreciate it, Mads. You're a legend. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mads. >> Thank you, Mads.

Brian Atlas>> Thank you, Mads. Uh Brian's Teeny. Okay, you have to thank this guy at least. >> Thank you, Brian's Teeny Peen. It's a

SPEAKER_02crazy username. It's not. It's average. Okay, chill out. >> What's average? >> Nothing. >> No, like what's average for a guy? >> We can explore that in a sec.

SPEAKER_02>> Donated $30. Evening, Brixen. Looking forward to being kind of out in your hood at TwitchCon this week. >> Would be super cool if you made it out to debate in Nashville, but I know you are busy.

Brian Atlas>> Debate. >> I never honestly I don't really travel. I'm so caught up and busy with work here in Santa here in Santa Barbara. >> Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Um I should travel more. Like I've so many uh people want to do interviews and come on my podcast, blah blah blah.

Brian AtlasAnd I I just I don't do it. I don't know. I'm kind of I don't know, man. Part of me doesn't, this might seem counterintuitive,

Brian Atlasbut part of me, I don't want to build myself up too much, if that makes sense. Like, it's one thing, >> but that's your job. You're a YouTuber. You need to be like, you need to put yourself out there. >> Well, I just recently started building

Brian Atlasup like my own cuz I was always like, build the podcast, build whatever. Like, I'm secondary. And I've re, you know, with my Instagram and my own Twitter, I've started to get a bit more out

Brian Atlasthere. But part of me kind of feels like I'm in a sweet spot. And when I say sweet spot, I mean

Brian Atlaslike there's a certain level of attention you start getting negative attention but also also positive. But when you start becoming more

Brian Atlasof a focus >> then you get a lot of negative attention. And I'm in this kind of sweet spot with my stream where I'm not like like you see what goes on with like

Brian AtlasHassan and Destiny. >> They're like the main focus. Yeah. >> And Ethan and a lot of these guys and look they make a bunch of money. They

Brian Atlashave a lot of attention on them. >> But with that comes a lot of uh uh scrutiny scrutiny. And I don't know if I want that level

Brian Atlas>> cuz people know the Whatever podcast, but they don't know Brian. >> Well, that's the that's kind of >> You're a little low-key mysterious >> a little bit. Like I've wanted to what you know those things on the tops

Brian Atlastops of towers like is it what just called a lightning rod? >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Where you try to draw attention to Oh, look over here.

Brian AtlasSo you just get crazy people on the podcast. So that's where the scrutiny goes. >> Well, I mean most of the scrutiny um I mean I've had hit pieces written about

Brian Atlasme, about the show. I mean mostly it focuses on the show though. But I don't know like once you become bigger

Brian Atlasthat's a lot like it my job is kind of already stressful dealing with all this stuff as it is. It's like once you make the focus you I don't know then uh

Brian Atlas>> I think I think it's a good exercise for you to put yourself out there more you know. >> Oh I I feel I'm already really exposed is the thing. Is that what like the whatever Wednesdays is about? >> Well, yeah, I'm definitely putting

Brian Atlasmyself out there for Whatever Wednesdays, but I kind of don't mind that it's a bit more like chill, smaller audience. >> Wait, so then does that mean like since you're in the sweet spot, like this is the peak of your career? >> Uh, peak of my career. I mean, it's hard

Brian Atlasto say. >> It's hard to say what the future holds. >> Like this is the best it's felt. Uh, I mean I would say my the podcast

Brian Atlaswas more popular in like 2023, >> 2024. 2025 has been, but I mean 2025 I went down to just one show per week, but

Brian Atlasthat was very intentional. Um, >> but I would say 2023, 2024 definitely was the peak. I mean, the podcast is still doing great. It's not like some massive crash or anything, but you would

Brian Atlasexpect when you go from two shows a week to one that you're less out there. >> Yeah. >> But it's been good for stress and you know, I'm trying to lose a bit of weight, too. So, you know, that's been good, too, guys. I'm getting there,

Shona Alan>> guys. I'm Have you been like working out? Working out like every week? >> It's just diet mostly. >> Well, you have to you have to work out. >> No, it's just diet. That's it. >> But like, isn't that more effective to

Brian Atlasdo both? Oh, I mean I do I do work out, but my pri the primary thing for me is diet. That's like the number one thing. Um here we're going to let some chats come through.

SPEAKER_02>> Evening. Oh, wait. Did I read >> one motorport donated $30? >> I already did this one, right? >> Evening Brixen looking for being kind out in your

SPEAKER_02>> I think I already did that one. Hold on. But Grid One, you have this one then. Grid 1 Motorsports donated $30. I am

SPEAKER_02throwing a really cool party in an amazing venue. You should come have a chill weekend. Andrew, Jake, everyone is going to be there.

Brian AtlasIs that for TwitchCon or Debate Con? Uh, I mean, I appreciate the invite, man. I'm just

Brian Atlasso busy. I'm genuinely so busy with the show. I don't really travel, but uh I would like to go to some of that stuff eventually. Honestly, I don't like to

Brian Atlasfly >> really. >> I don't like to fly. That's the other thing, too. Even if it's first class, I I don't like to fly. >> Like you're you just can't sleep or like

Brian Atlaswhat? Oh, do you get plane sick? Is that what it Uh well, so the last time I flew and I don't know, this was an international flight. I thought I was going to die. >> Oh,

Brian Atlas>> like I I had the worst headache of my entire life and it might have been like pressure from the altitude or I don't know, but my head felt like it was going to explode. I've never had a headache

Brian Atlaslike that ever before in my life. I'm pretty sure it was altitude related. Is Brian sick? Why am I sick? Why are they saying I'm sick? Uh,

Brian Atlas>> but it's important to do things you're uncomfortable with to like get out of your comfort zone. You have to try new things in life. >> I I've trust me, I've

Brian Atlas>> trust me, I've done so many in terms of do things outside your comfort zone. I'm in the 99th percentile of people. I've done like I don't know if you've seen

Brian Atlasany of my old videos. Also had people get flack. Oh, Brian, he's so bro. I had I had cojones. I I still do have cojones, but I already proved myself here. Let's see. All right, let's You guys want to see the [ __ ] old prank

Brian Atlasvideos? >> All your old social experiment videos, >> bro. I'm sorry. 99 here. What's um Let's just do popular. Uh oh my god, I shouldn't even >> drowning baby.

Brian Atlas>> Okay, don't worry about that. >> You didn't That was a fake baby, right? >> Oh yeah, that was a fake baby. Um I don't know. Uh, >> these are some you and your thumbnails. >> Yeah. Hey, it's YouTube. You know the thumbnails. You got to go hard.

SPEAKER_05>> Mhm. >> Uh. Oh boy. >> Oh my god. Wait. YouTube. Is YouTube working? >> So I don't know. >> So fast. I like it. >> Oh, that's you. >> Yes. >> Sure. >> Oh yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Um, wait, hold on. Uh, >> yeah. Wait, why are there the subtitles in

Brian AtlasSpanish? Hold on. >> Wait, how many girls said yes? >> So, >> what was your success rate?

Brian Atlas>> Ah, what? Hold on. Uh, hold on. >> Uh, it was low. >> All night sex with me.

Brian Atlas>> It was low. >> Okay. I just I just thought you were cute and I just want to know if you wanted to have sex. >> Well, see, that's not how you go about getting that. You have to like flirt. >> Okay, but hold on. The

Brian Atlas>> Maybe you're not enough. You're not charismatic enough. >> The idea, by the way, Amster I hate big cities. >> You don't just say, "Can we have sex?" You would say, "Oh, can we go back to my >> I hate big cities, but Amsterdam, I

Brian Atlas[ __ ] love Amsterdam." Anyways, um what was I saying? Wait, what? Oh, one girl said yes. One girl said yes. The f the girl at the

Brian Atlasbeginning, but uh hold on. Watch Brian get a copyright strike on

Brian Atlashis own content. No, it's on whatever. It's on the whatever page. Um the first girl said yes, but every other

Brian Atlasgirl said no. >> So it was like very low success rate. I mean, even the fact that I got the one, yes, it was. Uh, but I mean, that's how it is with men.

Brian Atlas>> You can't. It doesn't work. >> Maybe that's the wrong sample size. >> Well, I did it here in Santa Barbara. I did it in Europe. >> Oh, you did it everywhere.

Brian Atlas>> Well, so yeah, I mean, I did it here in Santa Barbara. And then I did it in France and then in Amsterdam, which you see uh Yeah. What do you think a girl success rate

Brian Atlaswould be? >> We did it. So, the the whole point of that I'll pull it up. The whole point of that social experiment was >> maybe it also depends on how you look as a girl than a guy though.

Brian Atlas>> Hi, my name >> Man, this is some old guys. This is a decade old at this point. Here, let me window. Uh, [Music] >> going to be doing a little social

SPEAKER_06experiment and I'm going to be asking people to have sex with me. >> Do you want to have sex with me? >> All right, I'll skip. >> Hey, you know. >> Oh, yeah. The cops came.

SPEAKER_06>> Would you have sex with me? [Music] >> Oh, he's thinking about it. [Music]

SPEAKER_06>> Yes. No. Ready, please. You can just kind of lay there and I'll just do my thing. >> Why not? >> Okay, let's go.

SPEAKER_06>> Oh, damn. >> Are you What? >> Yes. I'm serious. Like my house is like right there. >> Hi, Dad. >> All right, I'm down. >> Okay, let's do it. >> He's a little serious. >> Will you have sex with me?

SPEAKER_06>> Okay, let's go. Just want to ask you guys if you would be down to have sex with me. >> Both of them. I will definitely have sex with you. >> Like right like literally right now. I'm not joking. Your house is like right over there. >> I'll go with it right now. >> Right now. >> Easy. Wait, this guy is so easy.

Brian Atlas>> Holy [ __ ] >> So, no. >> Okay. By the way, >> I told she was only getting yeses and I'm like, okay, Andrea, we can't have you only get yeses.

Brian AtlasMaybe this was kind of I was like, he's with his girlfriend. >> You want to have sex? >> So, he said no. >> Yeah. >> My house is like right over there. [Music] >> I don't know if this is serious. Would you like to hang out with us first?

SPEAKER_06>> This guy's fine. >> Um, not just do it right now. So, yeah, just it'll be like really quick, like 15 minutes. >> That's totally fine with me. >> Okay. All right. Ready to go? >> Yeah, let's go. >> Okay. >> I better not be getting robbed right now. >> Let me know if this is too forward. Um,

Brian Atlasif you would have sex with me. >> Maybe you'd want to have sex with me. >> Yes. >> Want to have sex? >> Yes. >> So, crazy. >> Easy mode. Women have dating. Women have

Shona Alandating on easy mode. >> Easy mode. >> That's not dating. That's sex, right? And that's actually that's actually a struggle that women have with dating is that men just want sex sometimes.

Brian Atlas>> Well, yeah, but the I think there is a first step to everything. And I like even >> sex is not the first step. It should be the first step. >> I'm not saying it's the first step, but what I'm saying is is that

Brian Atlasyou can like most guys are going to at least like take the girl out for a date or something. Like you can at least get there. A lot of guys will struggle to even get to that point.

Shona Alan>> Also, guys will like they're down bad and they'll have sex with like any girl, but it doesn't mean that like if you're if you're like a really unattractive girl, it might not be easy for you to be like taken out and taken really good care of and stuff like that. >> Wait, if you're not a good-looking girl,

Shona Alan>> no. If you're like a very un conventionally unattractive girl, it it'll be hard for it might be hard for you to date because even if guys want to have sex with you, they might not want to like take care of you and treat you really good. >> Yeah, sure. That's true. Um, >> so that's not easy mode. That's what I'm

Shona Alansaying. >> Well, in terms of getting laid, women certainly have uh getting laid easy mode. >> Sure. Getting laid. Sure. But is getting laid is getting laid like the best thing that everyone covets in life? No. >> Not necessarily. But I mean, if if it

Brian Atlasdepends on what you're looking for, but if the threshold is, and you would agree um that there are women who do look for casual sex, like would you agree with that?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, sure. Of course. >> Like I mean, but There's some women who >> Sure. Yeah, I would agree that there's definitely more men, but you would agree. I mean, you've been here for 2 3 weeks. What

Brian Atlas>> I don't know if you've partied in Isa Vista like this. It's not like all the women >> just want a long-term relationship. Like the girls go out, they drink, they party, they want, they want to hook up. >> There's girls who are definitely into

Shona Alanculture. >> They're into it. But it's so easy for women. >> But even girls who want that and who get that, like that's not that's like very short-term gratification. That's not like something that's going to actually fulfill them in the long run. >> Yeah, sure. >> Which is why I'm so against hookup

Shona Alanculture for everyone. >> Sure. But ultimately, at least when it comes to getting laid, women have it on easy mode. Even unattractive women. >> Oh, when it comes to getting laid on attractive women, >> when it comes to getting laid, women have it on. So, >> but even dating, even dating, it's it's

Shona Alaneasy mode. Um, >> dating and getting laid are different things. >> They are they are different things. >> You have it on e easy mode. Still easy mode >> when it comes to dating. If you are a conventionally attractive girl and even if you are a conventionally attractive

Shona Alangirl, there's still going to be many guys who want to use you for your body. >> This is true. >> Who want to like play with you like when you think of a player like the you think of like a playboy like that's that term is very associated with guys with men. >> True.

Shona Alan>> So even if you are a good-looking girl, it's not always easy. >> That >> definitely not. >> No, that's true. >> You could find an older guy who wants to take care of you, but even then like that's not what every girl wants.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. But I'd still say like if you um let's compare. So I I agree with you obviously when you're attractive that makes everything easier. But that would

Brian Atlasapply and that would apply to both men and women. But if we were to look at the experiences of say let's look at comp comparable. So like average looking girl average guy. I think even in that

Brian Atlasscenario, while the average I would agree with you that the average looking girl might it's not easy necessarily to get into a relationship. Although some people might disagree with me even on

Brian Atlasthat. I would say that if you're comparing like to like, I think an averagel looking girl has an easier time than an averagel looking guy when it comes >> dating, not getting

Brian Atlas>> Yes. I think both men and women struggle. Yeah, I'm talking about dating. Both men and women struggle when it comes to genuine dating and pursuing pursuit of a relationship. >> But you know what I'll say to that? I'll

Shona Alansay that like if you're an averagel looking guy and you have if you have like um an average looking guy and an average looking girl, like the standards when it comes to how girls look are a lot higher. So therefore, she'll be considered relatively less attractive when you look at other girls compared to

Brian Atlasthe average looking guy. >> Wait, hold on. Wait. Should >> I I'll >> wait. I I got to type this out really quick. TTS >> maybe. Can I change the font? Do we have

Brian AtlasHelvetic? Is it Helvetica or Helvetica? >> Helvetica new. >> No, we don't. Can I make it bold?

Brian AtlasAh, [ __ ] Yeah, that looks better. I don't know, guys. TTS. Maybe I'll just leave it here. Down here, I guess. TTS. It's all the way in the corner. Should I put it

Brian Atlashere? I guess that's fine for now. Maybe a little more up. Sorry. OCD. Uh there >> you have OCD. >> Maybe. I don't know.

Shona Alan>> No judgment. >> I don't think so. I'm very precise in how I like things though. Um sorry. So repeat your thing. Sorry. >> I was just saying before like if you have like a like a very like averagel looking guy and you have a very averagel

Shona Alanlooking woman. I think because the standards for how women are to look are a lot higher. Like standards when it comes to girls looks are a lot higher. Sure. She may be considered relatively less attractive compared to other women

Shona Alan>> than the guy is compared to other men. >> Oh, so you're saying >> men only want to date very good-looking women a lot of the time. >> I don't think that's true. Well, obviously men want to get the best that they can get.

Shona Alan>> What I'm saying is the like the standards for how girls are supposed to look are a lot higher. Therefore, an averagel looking girl is considered >> I don't know if I agree with that actually. >> Like look at you have there's so many

Shona Alanlike couples out there of like beautiful women with just average dudes and I don't think there's as many couples with >> Yeah, I know what you're talking >> amazing looking men and average women. You know what I mean? >> I know what you're talking about. >> You have to observe that before. >> I actually saw something on Twitter about this. Let me see.

Shona Alan>> There's like there's some couples that are the other way around but not as much. >> I think girls settle more looks wise than guys do. >> Is this what you're talking about? that I mean, yeah, that's an example. >> Hold on, let me pull it up. >> Girls definitely like are more lenient

Brian Atlaswhen it comes to looks. >> What if they're just siblings? Hold on. >> You're talking about like this or whatever. >> Well, yeah. >> Like, first off, I don't even know. Maybe they're that's something else. But look, >> have you seen Adriana Lima's ex-husband?

Brian Atlas>> Uh, >> he's concerning. He's not that good. >> Oh, man. I saw it on Twitter. You know what though? Look, I've here I actually might have it in the Discord. Let me see if I can pull it up on

Brian AtlasDiscord. Let's see. Looks >> okay. So, this trope of man, I see Okay, let

Brian Atlasme ask you a question first, then I'll put it on uh Discord. >> Do you see beautiful women all the time? >> Honestly, like at this school, like,

Brian Atlasyeah. And then when it comes to like the the comparison, do you see really Okay, maybe I should just use the same word for both. Do you see men good looking men? >> Do you see how about this? Do you see really good-looking women all the time?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Do you see really good-looking men all the time? >> No. And the reason that is is because there's more strict standards when it comes to girls. >> Wouldn't the standards Wait, but if there's more good-looking women,

Brian Atlaswouldn't that mean that the standards are stricter? like less men fall into the threshold of a determination from women that they're good-looking. Wouldn't that that mean that >> the the standards the standards are

Shona Alanstricter for men? >> Societal beauty standards when it comes to women are a lot more specific. >> Disagree. Actually, disagree. But hold on. How about this? How about this? >> Are expected to like look so good all the time.

Shona Alan>> Okay. Can I ask you a question? >> The whole beauty industry. >> Hello. >> Uh I Well, I'll get into you. I well what >> like for men like that for men the biggest thing is probably like what like height build

Brian Atlas>> well we can get into that but okay >> I mean for women like women are on their bodies too. >> Um so here's a couple um tell me which one like you think is settling. Hold on it's going to take a sec. Okay it's just

Shona Alanface but tell me which one you think is settling >> looks wise. >> I think they're actually in the same league because >> holy [ __ ] Listen, listen. >> She has a better face card, but

Brian Atlas>> Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. >> Wait. What? >> His hair is really not it. >> My computer like [ __ ] crashed or something.

Brian Atlas>> What the hell? Wait, hold on. Just Just one sec. Let me >> Okay, >> she has a really pretty face. >> But hold on. But look at look at his

Shona Alanarms. All right. This guy's clearly fit. Thin. What do you notice? >> I don't like his face shape. >> What do you notice?

Brian Atlas>> And the fact that he's bald. >> Okay. But he's not bald. He's got a buzz cut. >> It's not a good buzz. He's not got a good hairline at all. >> He's f He looks fine. >> He's decent looking. She's decent looking. >> I don't

Brian Atlas>> Not every guy hates women. His facial symmetry is good. He's got blue eyes. I mean, I'm not one of these face rating dudes, you know? >> Dark guys are better at Have you ever seen those like face rating where it's

Brian Atlaslike okay the the distance between the the bottom of the nose and the the mouth and the the the distance between the >> like I don't know I don't know how to do that [ __ ] Yeah. >> He's a good-look guy. He's even the face card.

Shona Alan>> Maybe I'm just saying this cuz he's not my type at all. >> He's got a better face card than her. >> I like her face >> and she's I'm not trying to be mean. She's obese and he's physically fit. Like that's >> okay. But what is showing that trying to prove? Is it just my take on this

Brian Atlasspecific couple? >> I'm show showing it because you're like I never I never see a guy settle. >> There are there are guys who settle like what's his name? Silly Killian Murphy. >> Like he's more conventionally attractive than his wife. I'm just saying.

Shona Alan>> Oh, wait. Who's that guy? Who's that actor with the old director wife? >> No. If Okay, people are saying if she if she lost weight, if she lost weight and she took really good care of herself, I could see her being more attractive than him.

Shona Alan>> Hold on. Wait. Sam Taylor Johnson. >> Oh, >> Aaron Taylor. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've seen this couple. Yeah. She's is less conventional than him.

Shona Alan>> This idea that Oh, what? >> No, it's I always see >> these are exceptions. >> Perfect women. I don't think they're exceptions. >> Always there there is these kinds of couples, but there's a lot more couples where beautiful women are settling for

Brian Atlasaverage men. >> Hello. >> Yeah, I agree with you. She He is better looking than her. He is better looking, >> by the way. And there's a massive age gap, too. >> There might have actually been some Didn't they meet when he was super young? Like >> when he was like a minor

Brian Atlas>> where it's kind of weird, you know. >> No, it's weird. It's weird. >> Um Oh, why is there is there FPS? Oh, it's better now, I guess. >> But, uh >> I agree with you. He is better looking than her. >> Can I ask you a question? How about

Shona Alanthis? Um who's settling here? like looks wise >> he is. >> Why?

Shona Alan>> Well, she does not appear to be of a healthy body type. >> That's one way to phrase that. Um, okay. >> Well, I can phrase it like that if I want to.

Shona Alan>> Why is the FPS song chat? Do you see that? I don't know. Ever since, man. [ __ ] Can I try to refresh? that someone could

Shona Alanspam like many photos of beautiful women settling for not good-looking guys and it would be the same thing around. So, that doesn't really prove anything. >> Yeah. But I think this idea that >> would you say there are more attractive

Brian Atlasmen settling for not good-looking women or the other way around? >> I don't know to be honest. I don't know if there's a study on it. >> I think there's more beautiful women settling for mid and not that good-look men. >> Fake news.

Brian Atlas>> No, no, no, no, no. >> Fake news. Guys, I need to use the bathroom really quick. Uh, I'll be be right back. I know there's a bunch of chats coming through. Pasty, I see them. Grid one, I see them.

Brian AtlasI'm going to use the bathroom really quick. Uh, Shona is going to entertain you guys. Do you want to just read the >> Yeah, I can I can >> the chat right here. All right. I'm going to scoot an eye on them. >> I'm going to scoot over. Do you want to just scoot over yourself? And

Shona Alan>> Sure. >> I don't know why the FPS is on [ __ ] guys. I don't know. Okay. >> Okay. >> I'm saying there are there is more

Shona Alanscrutiny when it comes to a woman's looks than a man's. And it is more often the case that beautiful women set for mediocre men or not conventionally attractive men. >> Fake news. Fake news.

Shona Alan>> Okay. Yeah. And like in terms of money, there's there's more scrutiny when it comes to how much money a man has than a girl. I agree with that. But I'm just saying when it comes to looks, when you think of beauty standards,

Shona Alanare there more of them when it comes to women or men?

Shona AlanBeauty is in the eye of the beholder. Okay, got makeup doesn't count. What's wrong with makeup?

Shona AlanOh yeah, you guys, if you guys want to know my ad, you can follow me on Insta at s e o n a l ln. I am I'm half ethnically Indian, half

Shona AlanBritish. And guys, I want to address this whole thing about my cross necklace. It is not upside down. I don't know, like maybe I wore it the wrong way during the last episode I was on, but it's it's not upside down.

Shona Alando a bow for Brian when he comes back.

Shona AlanGuys, I don't I don't know if I can do a bow. If I I can do a bow, but I I don't think I would. Not this soon.

Shona AlanBritish is an ethnicity. What? Oh, hey. I don't know what he's doing back there.

Shona AlanI I can't I can't speak any other languages. Wait, I like this chair. Also, I'm not a hoe. >> Hello? I'm not a hoe. I don't I don't like hookup culture. >> [ __ ] about me.

Shona Alan>> No, I only said nice things about you. They wanted me to give you a bow. >> Are you going to do it? >> Hold on. >> All right, let's see it. Wait, like how how do you expect a woman to bat?

Brian Atlas>> Why is the Hold on. The FPS is all >> like Wait, I There's no way. Hold on. Hold on. >> Get in frame. Yeah. >> Okay. So, well, there's no >> like a full on like a >> like that.

Brian Atlas>> You You have to here. Do the hand. Put your hands like this. >> Like this. >> Yeah. Okay. Scoot back. >> There's no way. Okay. >> Scoot back. >> This is completely ironic. I would never actually do this.

Brian Atlas>> All right. Let's see. For real. >> Okay. I'm ready. Like a full on like >> Wow, >> that's pretty good. >> Wow. >> Wait, were your hands like this? >> They were just like this. >> No, it has to be like this. >> Oh my god. >> Do it again.

Shona Alan>> Are you trying to make me bow for multiple times? Like >> Oh my god. >> It's pretty good. I give it That's like a B minus. Probably >> a B minus. Bow. >> B minus. B minus.

Shona Alan>> Never doing that again. >> Keep talking. I'm stretching. >> That's just for the content. Sandwich time. No, no, no, no. Actually, I can make a pretty good sandwich. I'm

Shona AlanI'm good at cooking. You hate baggie jeans? I love baggy jeans. >> Clip it and ship it, boys. >> What What is a girl supposed to wear instead? Skinny jeans.

Shona Alan>> I have my own money, guys.

Shona AlanI'm not mocking Catholicism or Christianity. I deeply respect Christians. Absolutely. I was on a podcast before. I was on the

Shona Alanepisode two weeks ago. Um I might come back on eventually.

Shona AlanNothing in those eyes. I have plenty of life in my eyes. Remove the cross. I can hide it

Shona Alanthere. You can't see anything anymore. I'm not a big meanie IRL. I'm very I'm a very kind, sweet person.

Shona AlanBig black saucer eyes. What is my major? I'm majoring in psych. >> Do you guys still hate me?

Shona AlanI don't have an OF. I would never have an OF. I would literally never ever open at Only Fans ever.

Shona Alan>> Talking the mic towards me like this. >> Oh,

Shona Alan>> my name is spelled S E O N A. It's spelled like Siona. But it's what? What? >> You're fine. >> They're spelling my name wrong. >> Don't worry about it. Don't

Shona Alan>> I would never mess Brian's head up just cuz I'm a psych major.

Shona Alan>> No, I didn't skip class. Basically, my TA is in Cuba right now, so we just have something due by tonight, but we don't actually have to show up in person. He's not. There's no class today, so I'm actually good.

Shona AlanBlack lifeless eyes like a doll's eyes. Are my eyes lifeless?

Shona AlanI'm okay. I'm not wasting my money just cuz I'm a psych major. What should I switch my major to then? Hello. Admit I want I don't want Sharia law in

Shona Alanthe west. I don't believe in any kind of I don't believe law should be guided by religion. I think I believe in the separation of church and the state.

Shona AlanNo, I'm not majoring in gender studies. No. No.

Shona AlanMy parents' money. My parents are pretty well off. They're They're good.

Shona AlanYeah, they can be guided by values that exist within religions, but they they do not enforce any sort of religious belief upon you or make you abide by the rules of a religion. Like the ten commandments

Shona Alanare not incorporated into the law. I mean obviously like murder is one thing, but that's that is universal way beyond any religion.

Shona AlanWho's Indian? Your mother or your father? My mother. Hi. Are you a feminist? I think Okay. I think the term like feminist has like a lot of connotations and a lot of beliefs that are slapped onto that.

Shona Alan>> Popsicle. >> Yes. I would love a popsicle. Um like there's this belief like, oh, if you're a feminist, you hate men. If you're a feminist, you think women and men are exactly the same. And like there's a lot of these there's a lot of I think it's

Shona Alanmisconstrued a lot. So, I'm very hesitant to just use that term.

Shona AlanI am not justifying Charlie Kirk's assassination. Have never, would never, will never. RIP Charlie Kirk.

Brian Atlas>> All right, I'm going to rejoin. Just scoot over. Thank you. All right. We're back, boys. We're back. Uh, scoot over just a tad more.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, this is good. What is this? >> Uh, it's I think they're called Johnny Pops. What? Guys, do you see the FPS? Hold on. Keep scooting a little bit. >> Oh, this isn't some kind of fetish

Brian Atlascontent, is it? >> No. Uh, scoot over a little bit. >> I don't know why it's doing that. Yo, chat, is the FPS fine? Because on our end it looks jittery. >> Wait, I think I think

Brian Atlas>> it's Is it totally fine? >> I think I'm growing on them, right? >> Are you? Maybe. Here, let me actually just do a little check. Maybe it's just on our end that the FPS looks weird.

Brian AtlasIt's fine. It's a test. It looks fine. Let's see. It's fine. It's a test. It looks fine.

Brian AtlasHold on. >> Yo, chat is that >> actually. Yeah, it looks okay on YouTube side. That's weird. Maybe our OBS is just tripping out. Um,

Brian Atlasokay. What were we We had to do some chats and then we'll dive into >> They're lowkey chill. >> Yeah, the chat's cool. >> I'm friends with them now. >> Were they talking [ __ ] about me while I was gone? >> They didn't really say much about you. >> Oh, okay. Did you talk [ __ ] about me while I was

Brian Atlas>> No, I only said very, very nice things about Brian. >> Mhm. Sure. It's so weird though. The R OBS display it looks jittery but apparently like Okay.

Brian Atlas>> Well, I was Oh my god. I literally bowed to him. I would see like >> I would never talk [ __ ] at all. >> You got the bow. >> Uh, okay. We were going to talk. We're going to do chats. Then we'll talk about

Brian Atlasracism. Then we can do the >> Oh, I want to watch I want to watch Andrew Wilson stuff later at some point. >> Uh, yeah, we can do that. >> Wait, how long does the stream last? Uh, we've been going for an hour 44. I

Brian Atlasusually do like around three, but maybe he'll three three and a half, but sometimes we can Oh [ __ ] a lot. You guys have sent in a lot. Okay, we're

SPEAKER_02going to get cut up on the chats. Yeah. >> Hasty George. Oh, I remember him. >> Pasty George donated $30. Wait, this is continued >> four criminaliz

SPEAKER_02speech and sensitive topics about feminism, Israel, Gaza, LGBTQ community, especially the trans community. >> There was already a North Bay man

Brian Atlasarrested on October 1st, 2025. >> Yo, Pasty, are you still in the chat? Hold on. I want to see if I can adjust. Hold on.

Brian AtlasAre you still in the chat, Pasty? Thank you for that, man. Wait, I'm just going to see if this can be bigger on in one sec.

SPEAKER_02Just do >> That's fine. Thank you, Pasty. Appreciate it, man. >> Command 500 donated $30.

SPEAKER_02>> Thank you, man. >> Hey, $30 bucks is $30 bucks. Julian rolling on the floor laughing emoji. Love you, Brian. >> Drinks for Charlie. clinking beer mugs emoji. >> Have you seen that thing where people go

Shona Alanto Starbucks and they order their Starbucks drinks drink as Charlie Kirk like as a name? >> No. >> Like they go they go into Starbucks. >> Kind of strange. >> I don't know what drink it is but they order a specific drink and they're like they they give their name as Charlie

Shona AlanKirk and it's like a trend and I think regardless of what you think of him, it's just like a little corny. I don't know. It's a little weird. >> Are they pro-ch Charlie Kirk? >> They're pro or anti. >> They're pro Charlie Kirk. It's like a way of honoring him to like get a Starbucks drink and say, "I am Charlie

Brian AtlasKirk." >> That I haven't heard about that. >> It's a little little strange. >> Yeah. I mean, I I don't have a issue with people doing tributes for Charlie, but yeah, it's probably a

Shona Alan>> I'ming I wouldn't do that. >> Okay. >> They're You're biting it. >> I'm biting the popsicle so it doesn't look sus. >> Oh, it's fine. You can do You can just eat it normally

SPEAKER_02if they're going to be gooners. donated 30. >> Been a while since my last TTS, but curious if you'd have an average Joe non- influencer male on your podcast to debate the unrealistic women that are

SPEAKER_02usually on the panel. >> As always, >> yeah, you don't have guys on much. >> Uh, so the Thank you, Smithers.

Brian AtlasThe thing is, I don't know if the average Joe, non-influencer, never done a debate in his life. Actually, >> I've never done a debate in my life. >> Actually, would be able to properly debate. Um, I don't know,

Shona Alanthough. >> I mean, like, okay, I've done debates in classes before, but like last episode I was on was the first time I've ever done something like that. >> Yeah, but I think >> also a lot of the girls there definitely

Brian Atlashave not debated. That girl with the lashes, she definitely has not debated. >> But part of me thinks that in order to debate the conservative position, >> like

Brian Atlas>> you need to be a woman. >> No, you have to make sure your position is very sound. There's this concept called Brandolini's Wait, hold on. Brandolini's

Brian AtlasBrandolini's Wait, [ __ ] What's it called? Law. Brandolini's law or the [ __ ] asymmetry principle.

Brian Atlas>> What is this >> internet adage? It con compares the considerable effort of debunking [ __ ] or misinformation to the relative ease of creating it in

Brian Atlasthe first place. The adage states the amount of energy needed to refute [ __ ] The >> adaj, isn't it? >> Addage. >> It's pronounced adage. You ad what is this? An Italian restaurant or something?

Brian Atlas>> Kind of French. I don't know. >> Adagio. Are you thinking of >> I was thinking of the term adagio? I think >> uh of I don't even know if that's a word. Well, there's there's that classical piece

Brian Atlasfor strings by >> Samuel Barber. By the way, this song goes hard as [ __ ] >> Oh, you're into classical music? Uh well

Brian Atlasactually the way I actually discovered this is Tiestto has made a I guess I don't know if you consider it a remix. This song goes hard voice crack. Uh but

Brian Atlasokay. The amount of energy needed to refute [ __ ] is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.

Brian AtlasThe reason I look look at that. The reason I bring that up is because wait, hold on. There's something weird going on. Oh, never

Brian Atlasmind. The reason I bring that up is because, hold on. I think when you're having these debates,

Brian Atlasyou have to understand that a lot of the mainstream >> What is TST? >> I don't know what what am I trying to articulate here.

Brian AtlasUh, what am I trying to articulate? Like some of the your positions liberal. Why am I redder? I I got redder. I was already really

Brian Atlasred. Now I'm red. >> I don't know. >> I would say that a lot of the liberal positions are just kind of spoonfed in like high school and college and you see it all over Tik Tok. like the amount of

Brian Atlaseffort needed to for example I'll give you an example of the [ __ ] asymmetry principle or Brandolini's law like a woman can just say okay well there's the

Brian Atlaspatriarchy and the effort the amount of effort it takes me to say well that's actually [ __ ] and like here's all the ways that >> is bigger than the [ __ ] in the first place

Brian Atlas>> yeah like the amount of effort for me like a a woman can just watch a TikTok and be like we live in a patriarchy. The amount of research and counter

Brian Atlasevidence I now need to present to counter this idea that I agree with that there's like a patriarchy is going to take me

Brian Atlaslike months and months of re like I maybe not months of research but >> or oh my god uh I'm trying to I'm trying to think of another >> I think the people who [ __ ] the most

Shona Alanlike there is no hope of convincing them otherwise or countering them otherwise like they're so like I think like they're so they have so much conviction in the [ __ ] they believe like there's no hope >> like yeah the the uh who said that

Brian Atlasreally good Mr. Mr. White, the amount of information to put put forth to refute is far more than the uh Oh, I missed it. Where is it? Mr. White. Where's his comment?

Brian Atlas>> I have blood on my hands for lying about Charlie Kirk. Whoa. >> Oh [ __ ] Chat's going fast. Mr. White. Oh man, it's >> No, I don't have any blood on my hands.

Brian Atlas>> The amount of information to put for needed to go needed to refute is more than just a si simple claim. >> That's true. That is true because you

Shona Alanhave to you have to debunk the whole claim.

Shona Alan>> So patriarchy is a great example. It's like the Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's another >> I think the word patriarchy when it comes to like talking about like gender roles is a buzz word. >> Oh yeah, for sure. Cuz I I think like if you're if you're saying we live in a

Shona Alanpatriarchy today when you're talking about modern feminism, you're you're almost like saying that it's ingrained institutionally and like legally when it's not. That's not the case. Like there's certainly societal biases and people who think women are just so

Shona Alansubordinate and inferior and should just stay in one place and do one thing. Um but like again like societal biases like that's not I don't think that's necessarily patriarchy. I think when you're when you're assigning society

Shona Alanpatriarchy, you're talking like you're saying it's ingrained into systems. >> Is that your position? >> I Yeah, I don't think I don't think like our institutions and our laws are patriarchal and therefore like as a woman you can do what you want, you can achieve what you want.

Brian Atlas>> But I'm not sure if that's even mainstream feminism. I think mainstream feminism or pop feminism would say that because of the patriarchy there's uh massive limitations to women's ability

Brian Atlasto achieve. You hear things like wage gap, glass ceiling, women can, you know, >> I think I think wage gap is I'm I'm skeptical. I don't necessarily believe there's a wage gap. >> And if there is, I think there's a lot of confounding variables as to why that

Brian Atlasdon't have to do with people discriminating against women. >> Sure. >> Like it could have to do with just men working more, etc. >> Well, yeah. Men men work more hours,

Brian Atlasthey work more overtime. Uh there's there's like dozens of different variables that would contribute to a gap even if it existed. But when you adjust for all the variables, >> but just because I don't believe that there's necessarily

Shona Alana wage gap, it doesn't mean like I don't agree with some of the overarching ideas of feminism. >> Okay. Uh here, let's let there's a bunch

SPEAKER_02of chats we need to let come through. >> Grid One Motorsports donated $30 after debate can on Friday before it starts. I can send you all the details. You could

Brian Atlasfly in Friday A.M. and fly out Saturday A.M. >> Oh, even worse. If I fly If I fly, I want to stay somewhere for a period of

SPEAKER_02time. I don't want to like fly and then just fly again super quick. >> You should go to one of those places. >> Thank you, Grid One. >> Defor

SPEAKER_02donated $30 to sane people. Transgender people are misgendering themselves. >> The sane people.

Shona Alan>> Got it. The sane people pe others can live their lives and it's not a huge deal. >> Oh, I saw something interesting on this the other day.

Brian AtlasSo on one hand if gender is a social construct then why do trans people need their like to align with the binary? Why do they need to

Shona Alan>> I don't think gender is completely a social construct. There's a biological aspect of it and then there's like a social aspect of it. Like like me as a girl like I I have like female biology

Shona Alanbut then there's also a lot of social things that are attached and mapped onto that. There's like it's like a biological reality with a social experience mapped onto it.

Shona AlanK. >> Okay. That's that's my point that I'm making >> and I think that social experience is more flexible whereas the biological reality is less flexible.

Brian Atlas>> Well, what so then for you when it comes to pronouns and stuff, what is the is there any threshold that the person needs to meet for you to use their preferred pronouns?

Brian Atlasthe only threshold is I want to be considered I want to be called by this pronoun. >> But what if they haven't undergone any outward physical uh transformation? So

Shona Alanthey don't dress like me right now for example. Uh let's say I told you that I was a trans woman like would you would agree that >> I literally would respect it if you wanted to say if you wanted me to like refer to you with she her pronouns. Like

Shona Alanobviously there's a little dissonance that comes with that when I'm used I'm very much perceiving you as a man. But if that is truly in your heart in this hypothetical how you wanted to identify, I would make the effort of calling you

Brian Atlasby those like those preferred pronouns. Like I would genuinely go out of my way for you to feel respected >> because I I some people will say well they need to have undergone some degree

Shona Alanof social transition. So this would be >> oh maybe the opposite of that. Let's say let's say you have a trans man. So like women to man and like

Shona Alan>> this trans man has like really like stepped into like like they really look like a man now like undistinguishable from other men cuz there's trans men like women to men who look so like masculine and manly

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next