DEBATE REMATCH! DATE ! DRAMA! BIG DAY! BIG NEWS! REACTS! CHILL STREAM! | Whatever Wednesday #4

Date: 2025-10-16

Duration: 4h 39m

Guests

Brian Atlas

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_01Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_08Shona Alan(guest)

Key Moments

IntroBrian introduces Shona as returning guest for debate-date format

Key MomentBrian's old social experiment: almost no women said yes to sex. Shona does female version: near 100% yes rate.

QuotePasty George offers iPhone Air for makeup removal; Shona refuses

Key MomentShona reveals family wealth: father was energy company exec, $60K/yr private school

Topics Discussed

Hassan Dog Shocking

React to Hassan Piker shocking his dog on stream.

Sunday Show Recap

Feral woman who said Brian should get 'Charlie Kirked.'

Old Social Experiment Videos

Brian's 2015 'asking girls for sex' videos. Shona does female version with near 100% yes rate.

Beauty Standards Debate

Who settles more in couples? Do women face stricter beauty standards?

Shona Makeup Removal Refused

$500 bounty + iPhone Air offered; Shona refuses. Shows without-makeup photos instead.

Shona Family Background

Father: former energy exec, multi-million payout. Private school $60K/yr.

USAID Birth Control Destruction

Trump/USAID contraceptives in Belgium warehouse sent to waste disposal.

Transcript

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Brian AtlasYo, what's up, guys? >> Hi. >> Welcome to another Whatever Wednesday, everybody. I'm joined today by Do you want to introduce yourself? >> Hi, guys. My name is Shona.

Shona Alan>> Just a little closer to home. >> My name is Shona. I was here two weeks ago and I'm here again. I'm a freshman at UCSB. I'm 18 and excited to be here. >> Yeah, guys. So, we're going to uh

Brian Atlas>> my bestie. >> We're going to revisit during the stream some of the stuff that we talked about on the stream. Little little casual debate rematch. Not super serious, but

Brian Atlaswe're going to investigate some of the maybe some of the Charlie Kirk stuff. The chat here does not seem to be >> loaded. This is chair one, guys. It's me. >> Yeah. And by the way guys, if the stream

Brian Atlasis lagging, reload. I don't know why the display chat here >> is not >> guys, I was not hitting on Brian >> allegedly. >> Uh

Brian Atlashuh. That's weird. >> I wonder why the stream chat here that we see sometimes it takes a little while to load up. I'm just going to do a couple checks here over on our end. Make

Brian Atlassure the stream's all good. Dr. C, what's up, man? How's it going, guys? Just as we let people trickle in, why aren't you using the studio? This is the studio.

Brian AtlasUm, oh, you I think are you asking why why we aren't sitting like at the table? Uh, I don't know. I've been doing the whatever Wednesdays just sitting here behind the computer. I don't really have

Brian Atlasa great setup when I'm sitting at the table to be like, you know, pulling [ __ ] up, you know, like going going here. I wonder I'm just going to do this.

Brian AtlasWait, there you go. That's cleaner. Uh guys, if you want to send in a message, we'll do Q&A. If you want to

Brian Atlasroast me or Shona, you can do it here. You can uh streamlabs.com whatever. Also, Venmo Cash App. Oh, it's loading up.

Brian AtlasGuys, if you're watching on Twitch, drop us a follow on the Prime sub. Oh, announcement, guys. Merch. All right, guys. So, for the merch, it's Halloween coming up October. We

Brian Atlashave a limited edition, limited supply, limited time drop. I've got three orange designs here. So, I'll show you guys super quick. We have whatever t-shirt.

Brian AtlasThere's three color options for the t-shirt, by the way. A heather orange, burnt orange, or just regular orange if you guys want to get it. And then we

Brian Atlasalso have a uh a hoodie that's just an orange. And then we have a premium hoodie. So, it's a primo primo hoodie also in a orangeish

Brian Atlascolor. A little different than the other ones though. So, yeah, that's our merch shop. We also >> Is that a shirt that says [ __ ] on it? >> Yes, I think >> that's absurd. >> This one? Why is that?

Brian Atlas>> You should wear that. >> I have. I'll show you a photo. Uh, we also I redid this one, guys. The yellow. It's It's a more neon yellow versus I I

Brian Atlaskept it for this one. Or is that's more of a proper yellow, I guess. >> Uh Whoops. Wait, what the Oh, yeah. Control T. Okay, there's our Instagram. Actually,

Brian Atlasthis this doesn't really matter right now. All right. Yo, Katigan, what's up, man? Our chat is like the one that's in the corner here. It's really slow. I don't know why.

Brian AtlasI don't know if there's something on my end I have to do to to fix it. But, oh, by the way, guys, Shilly Monster says, "Uh, these aren't like the the merch options we have, like especially the

Brian Atlast-shirts. It's a really high quality canv or uh blank I think it's what they're called. The I think the exact brand is called Bella canvas. It's not

Brian Atlassome like shitty 50 cent Gildan blank. Gildan if any of you know like t-shirt blanks and stuff. It's like premium material. It's a it's a shirt you'll

Brian Atlasactually want to wear. It's not uh you know, you ever bought like a band t-shirt or some other merch from a creator and it's just the design's cool or whatever, but the shirt itself is

Brian Atlasuncomfortable. It's made out of car cardboard and dog [ __ ] So, it's it's premium stuff. Um the prices of the shirts are are a little higher just because it's premium, but uh yeah, we

Brian Atlaswant you guys to actually wear the stuff and for it to be comfortable and for it to not just sit in your uh your closet. Okay. Uh, okay. I think the chat looks

Brian Atlasgood. Uh, Ashlin, is this Brian's girlfriend? I'm actually uh I'm actually a gay and a virgin and asexual. >> It's true.

Brian Atlas>> So, no, she's not my girlfriend. Uh, this is a debate date. Debate date. It's hybrid fusion. Fusion. Um, >> we've only had one conversation. We

Brian Atlascan't date yet. >> Yeah. She's going to um convince me why I should date her. your job. >> No, I think uh feminism 2025, right? >> I think you got to whine and dine me.

Shona AlanI'm kind of high maintenance. So >> Mhm. >> Yeah, >> he's got those high standards. >> Yeah. Um high maintenance. >> Someone noticed my eyebrows cuz I did them differently today. >> Did you? What did you do?

Brian Atlas>> I made them thicker. >> Oh, nice. Good times. All right. Uh what was the other thing I had to There's something else I had to do. I forgot.

Brian AtlasHm. One sec, guys. There's like, is the audio got chat? Is the audio okay? Is the audio okay? Just want to double check all the tech stuff is good before

Brian Atlaswe dive into some of the convo here. Uh, TTS will be 30 if you guys want to get it in. TTS is 30.

Brian AtlasHold on. Let me make sure everything looks good. the recent event.

Shona Alan>> I'm so curious how you make these thumbnails. >> The thumbnails. What do you >> Yeah, for like the long episodes. They're so >> So what? >> They're crazy. >> Why? Why are they crazy? >> They're

Brian Atlasthey're something. >> Uh oh. If you can try to also just speak like kind of keep yourself aligned a little bit. >> Mhm. >> Uh well, you know what? I get a lot of

Brian Atlasflack for the thumbnails. I get some flak because, you know, I use AI sometimes for them. Sometimes, the thing is is that people will flake last

Brian Atlasminute and I like to do the thumbnail the night before. So, I'm not a lot of times I end up doing the thumbnail the day of, but it's like people flake no show and if I use their photo and they're not

Brian Atlasgoing to be on the show, I have to I have to use something else. >> People flake. >> Oh, yeah. People cancel. People no show. people flake. Like for example, this

Brian Atlaspast Sunday we had a total of 14 people flake. >> 14 people flake. >> Yeah. So when I say what what I would consider a flake would be

Brian Atlasthey can flake like two weeks before. They can fleek fleek. Fleek. They can fleek 3 days before. They can flake uh the day of. They can

Brian Atlas>> That's not flaking. Then if they say in advance they can't do it anymore. It's kind of flaking. What What's the threshold to like for example, if somebody tells me three hours before the show, hey, I'm not going to come. >> That's flaking. >> That's flaking

Brian Atlas>> because you can't find someone in time. >> Yeah. I'd say like I still put them if they flake a week before. I still count it as a flake, but most of the flakes

Brian Atlaswill occur. Um I can't show this on stream, but let me see if I can just um hold on. I'm pulling up my

Brian Atlasspreadsheet, guys. I keep a insane spreadsheet. Okay, so >> all these

Brian Atlaswere 24hour. So, wait, we had six. Okay, six flakes on this this past Sunday that flaked within 24 hours.

Brian Atlas>> Damn, that's a little soon. >> Yeah, that's hard. That makes it kind of difficult to uh >> I'd never flake on you. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, we always appreciate the people

Brian Atlaswho I'll be there, show up. >> Why would they agree in the first place though? Do do you think they just get scared off when they see >> I think some Yeah, sure. It's probably like cold cold feet for a lot of people.

Brian AtlasA lot of people get cold feet. A lot of people uh uh sometimes people I don't know. I've heard every excuse in the book. For example, here I'll show you some in my

Brian AtlasDiscord. I should keep. I actually don't keep. One sec.

Brian AtlasUh, where is it? Wall of whatever. Is it gonna load? Rude. Hold on one sec, guys. I'm going to show her some of the

Brian Atlasflake receipts that we keep in the Discord. Uh, I guess I could show this. Hold on. All right. This is cuz one girl

Brian Atlas>> Oh, cuz of war. >> Because of the war, but she lived in LA and she's like, >> I I don't know. Uh, and then let's see. Wait.

Brian AtlasOh, uh, I can't make it because my lips are bruised up from my lip fillers. And then I have a date with a billionaire tonight. Can't miss this off. She might have been trolling

Brian Atlasthough. This girl might have been trolling on that. So, yeah. I don't know. YouTube keeps dropping the stream. Hm.

Brian AtlasLet me investigate. Stream poor. YouTube says it's poor. H. >> Hey chat, stream is this is a total flop. Flop. >> Marilyn. >> Get Marilyn out.

Brian Atlas>> Marilyn. >> Marilyn wants to be on here instead. >> Marilyn, why is it a flop? Type in the chat. I'll give you 10 seconds. YouTube is trash for real. Had to refresh.

Brian AtlasThat's so weird. Hold on, guys. Let me investigate. Stream settings. Let us see. Stream health. I need to change the video resolution. Hammer

Brian Atlaslens looks greasy. I don't know what that means. Sorry guys, we are, you know, live streaming. We're doing it live. It's

Brian Atlasalways going to be a little bit of complexity sometimes. Oh, I need to post this to the uh I'm going to look at it on my end. Let's see. We're going to look at the stream

Shona Alanon my end. So far, it's not even the freak. A bee just [ __ ] attacked me. It's Yeah, guys, it's not loading on. I'm actually looking >> Oh, >> what the freak?

Brian Atlas>> Brian's attracting flies. >> I'm just >> Yeah, it says an error code. Hey guys, if you're watching here, just go to Twitch then. Twitch.tv whatever. I

Brian Atlasdon't know if that's gonna annoying. Once I don't know if you guys can even hear us.

Brian AtlasIt's probably fine on Twitch. I don't know why it's doing this. Down detector. Hold on. I should I do a speed test? >> Oh, it is very blurry. >> Yeah, that's weird.

Brian AtlasWait, what was I going to do? YouTube is broke. Oh, it looks okay. Is

Brian Atlas>> kind of laggy though. No, >> I wonder what happens if I do.

Brian AtlasLet me check. Sorry, guys. I'm going to check our Twitch. See if that looks okay. The Twitch looks good, guys. The Twitch looks good. We'll keep it going on

Brian AtlasYouTube. Sometimes YouTube takes a a minute. If you guys want to refresh, try refreshing the stream. Sorry for the

Brian Atlasissues, guys. Should I do is the speed test gonna [ __ ] the stream? Let's see.

Brian AtlasOkay. Okay. Well, speed test for download looks good. We're getting like one one gig download, but upload would be important. >> They're saying it's YouTube, not you.

Brian Atlas>> YouTube. Oh, YouTube. Is YouTube in general having issues? >> Yeah, that's what they're saying. >> I mean, our upload is 100 megabytes. So, it's not our internet. It's all of

Brian AtlasYouTube. >> It's all of YouTube. Let me check out. Let me see if there's uh who can we watch? Let's see. Is Andrew live, guys?

Brian AtlasNot area. Who's live? Who's live? Um I'm not going to watch her. Oh, you got you know what, guys? >> I tried to look at a different

Brian Atlasstream. Hold on. I'll show you guys what I see. >> Oh, people are saying it's working now. So, >> so this is Maximilly.

Brian AtlasHe's streaming. Shows me an error. Go to Ariadite. Oh, wait. It's so slow.

Brian AtlasYouTube forgot to pay their bill. Rattlesnake. Let's see if we can see Jake.

Brian AtlasYeah. Are you guys yo chat are you guys getting uh this? Are you guys chat are you guys also getting this? An error occurred.

Brian AtlasOkay, I'll try to refresh it. Let's see.

Brian AtlasThis is really slow to load though. That's weird. So, it's I I guess it's also happening to me, guys. [Music]

Brian Atlas>> Well, that sucks. Um [Music] Oh, >> my friend, even though you hate me, bro, man. Exactly right. >> Okay. I mean, it's working. Maybe just

Brian Atlasuh refresh then. >> Maybe just refresh. That'll fix it. That'll fix it. What is up, guys? Okay. Can I make that? No, that's good.

Shona AlanAll right. Well, >> is that Gorlock with you? Damn. >> Yes. >> Yeah, guys, I'm Gorlock.

Brian Atlas>> Can we acknowledge the feral woman? Yo, Dmax, thanks for the pro uh the tier one. Appreciate it. Okay, let me

Brian Atlasmake sure. Guys, if you want to do a Q&A or a TTS, we're going to just do a $29

Brian Atlasuh TTS, I guess. $29 TTS. Okay. Yeah, if they don't see here, I'm going to also type it in the chat. Tell people

Brian Atlasto uh refresh if stream issue. That's annoying. Well, for those of you who aren't having issues,

Brian Atlas>> my cross is not upside down. I think it's like I don't know if it's like flipping it. It's not upside down. >> All right. >> I'm not the Antichrist, guys.

Brian Atlas>> East Coast is down. I mean, we're on the West Coast, so uh maybe there's issues here. Okay. Well, that's fine. We'll uh

Brian Atlasjust jump right into it. Uh, >> I am not a hoe. >> It's not true. >> Are you a hoe?

Brian Atlas>> I'm a hoe. Oh, yeah. I was going to show you the [ __ ] picture. Okay, hold on. Let's go. We got to go to old Brian.

Brian AtlasLet's see. Oh, wait. I got to move us over here. Also, I need to create a background.

Brian AtlasUh, where's the shirt where I'm wearing >> Oh, you're wearing it. >> Look, I'm wearing it. >> You look so different. Wait, your eyes look so big there. >> Yeah,

Brian Atlasthat this is old, though. This is like >> like how old? >> This is like 2015, I think. >> Wait, >> wait, did you Photoshop that? Did you like face app it or is that actually how you

Brian Atlas>> I don't think they had face app in 20. This is th No bamboozling. This is this is I mean my my eyes were open but like I can show you. It's literally a screen grab from a

Brian Atlasvideo. Hold on. Let me see if I can find >> Wait, his lashes look so long. >> Yeah. >> What lash serum do you use? >> Uh all natural. I'm all natural.

Brian Atlas>> Let's see if I can find it. It's from Hello. YouTube is is messed up, guys. YouTube is messed up.

Shona Alan>> Asking a thousand girls for sex. >> Tinder experiment. Tinder experiment. >> Wait, just say like >> say what? >> Well, if all guys are like down bad, then just say you're gay. Then you could

Shona Alanfind if you if you just say you're gay, you can find a thousand guys for sex. >> Well, yeah, that's that's Grinder. That's super easy. >> That's easy to do. But unfortunately, I'm not not gay. Not

Shona Alangay. >> Unfortunately, he wishes he was. >> That she got me. She got me. I feel like it things might be, you know, I feel like, look, I'm happy

Brian Atlasto be straight, but I feel like dating for it's got to be easier if you're gay. Oh, boy. Somebody's going to clip that. >> Like, I don't I'm not >> Brian's coming out, guys.

Brian Atlas>> I thought I thought I thought we were on a date, but it turns out he's gay. >> Guys, this is ridiculous. I can't even load my own YouTube videos. Look at this guys. Look at this. I'm

Brian Atlastrying to play a video here. I don't know. Can you see the preview? Maybe the preview will show. Be like, "Oh, rude."

Brian AtlasHello. >> What is going on with YouTube? >> This is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

Brian AtlasCamera is blown out. What does that mean? Wait, what does it mean? Camera's blown out. >> What is that? What do you mean blown out? >> I don't know. Well, all right. Well,

Shona Alanthat's fine. >> So, can we stream? >> Yeah. No, we're we're live. >> Okay. Okay. >> We're live. >> I think some people can see it. Like, they can hear us. >> Oh, yeah. Some people It's fine. >> And once it's uploaded afterwards, people can see it. So,

Brian Atlas>> what a [ __ ] [ __ ] show. Damn, man. >> It's always >> unfortunate. Unfortunate. And Shona here, she's only She has to take off at like 5. >> I don't want to go to class. >> 5:50.

Brian Atlas>> You've got like an hour. >> You could just not go. Can't you just >> H could email him. >> Hey, I'm sick. >> I just want to chill here. I don't want to go to class. I hate English. >> I have Yeah, English is so boring.

Brian AtlasHonestly, you should just drop out. >> Uh, definitely not. >> Just drop out. >> Become a trad wife. >> Uh, yeah, that's an option. Kick is working fine.

Brian AtlasAll right. Well, you know, it's okay. I'm just curious, though. Is the YouTube chat working for anybody? Is it working for anyone?

Brian Atlas>> Ditch class. Brian's a bad influence. >> He is. I'm I'm emailing my TA right now. >> You know, though, there's some students that are really smart that never show up to class and ace the [ __ ] Anyways, all right. It's working for most people.

Brian AtlasWe're the For the people who it is working for, they're probably like, "All right, it's fine. Stop tripping. Um,

Brian Atlasso did I show them the [ __ ] photo? Oh, they can't see it. Hold on. Yeah, that's me. Yeah, there it is.

Brian AtlasOkay. All right. Boom. >> Wait, I think I'm free. >> Oh, there you go. Cool.

Brian Atlas>> Staying the whole stream. >> All right. So, she gonna go on Asmin Gold's stream. Is Asmin Gold live? Should we Hold on. I'm just curious.

Shona Alan>> I do love hard work. I just don't like English. English is a stupid class. >> English. >> Oh, >> also, I'm not graded on my attendance. Really? I'm graded on my essays. I'll still write the essay.

Shona Alan>> Do you know this guy? >> Hassan quietly opposes. >> Yes. Hassan didn't People are saying he like shocked his dog or something. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. >> But I don't know. I don't know if it's true. >> I'm not sure. I'm skeptical.

SPEAKER_00>> It's not just >> I'm pretty sure he did. >> There's a bunch of kick streamers that do the same [ __ ] Oh my god. What a he out there who does actually oppose a lot

Brian Atlasof streamers when they do. >> Okay. I can't watch this. I >> I'm not going to watch this. >> Why? >> And look how look how much >> because Why you want to just sit here and watch Hassan all stream? >> Fine. We don't have to. I mean, I could.

Shona Alan>> Do you watch him? Are you familiar with the song? >> Yeah, sort of. I'm not like I don't watch his streams because I don't watch streams in general, but like I see clips. >> What do you think about the whole >> the >> dog shocking thing?

Shona Alan>> I don't think he shocked his dog. I don't think it's true. >> I mean, hold on, Chad. >> I'm not I've not looked into all the evidence. >> Did you see the clip? Did you see the clip? >> But I've watched enough content to see

Shona Alanthat most of the time he treats his dog well. And I think >> well I don't wait sorry go ahead. >> I think it's a bit of an excuse to like take him down perhaps and I also know like Ethan Klein like started a lot of the rumors and he really doesn't like

Brian Atlashim. >> Wait hold on. So your argument is so most of the time he treats his dog well. Would you apply this logic to like human relationships where it's like I'm going to you know what I'm going to go get a

Brian Atlasshot color. I'm going to put it around your your neck and then like but most of the time I treat you really well but from time to time I shock you. >> But he didn't shock the dog.

Brian Atlas>> Okay chat, we're pulling up the clip. We're pulling up the clip. Um I don't know where the >> It's a vibration caller. He showed it. >> Dogs don't yelp from vibrate.

Brian Atlas>> My dog yelps like regularly. Yeah, your A dog can yelp from other things, but what what would it have yelped from? Like what? I don't even Okay, wait.

Shona AlanHassan, >> did he did the dog clip his >> Did the dog clip its foot? >> Wait, do we just clip its foot? >> Someone said every time >> you're doing a lot of uh >> every time she says something dumb

Shona Alanshocker. >> Where's the This thing is so fun. Wait, this photo. Hold on. Oh, did someone confirm it's a shot caller? Look, if there is solid evidence

Shona Alanout there it's a shot caller, then that could be the case, guys. >> I'm just I've not I've not done the deep dive like you internet people have. Okay, I'm busy.

Brian Atlas>> Let me see if I can find Oops. Let me see if I can find the clip, though. Oh, wait. Hold on. I have to fix that. Let's just take this off of uh Fade.

Brian AtlasOkay. But you said he treats his dog good most of the time. >> Well, I've appears so >> it appears so. >> But like

Brian Atlasis there just a clip of it that's not >> Son shocks as a dog? It's I've seen clips on Tik Tok. >> Oh, great. YouTube's not working. We

Shona Alancan't even look at the clip. Okay. Well, I don't know. Let me see if I can maybe uh >> Okay, look, I don't necessarily agree with everything Hassan has ever said in general. >> I'm just skeptical as to whether or not

Shona Alanhe shocked his dog. >> He might have, he might have not. >> I just don't like to jump to conclusions cuz that's something that >> there's pretty clear evidence shot the dog. >> Hey, can somebody in the Discord

Brian Atlas>> What if I just like yelt right now then accuse you of shocking me? >> Are you wearing a shot collar? Well, the dog wasn't. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. You're doing a lot of uh You're going on the defensive here. I

Shona Alanthink sometimes you can just be like, "Yeah, they [ __ ] up." >> Well, I'm I'm not saying anything definitively. I'm just saying we shouldn't jump to conclusions. >> Hold on. What? There's like mountains of evidence. >> Mountains? >> Mountains of evidence. >> Are there mountains of evidence?

Brian Atlas>> Uh, can somebody on the Discord just try to find the video? It can't be a YouTube link. Uh, put it in general chat. The dog was wearing it. There's clips of

Brian Atlasit. There's so many clips here. Let me see if I can find Oh, I was gonna say go to YouTube, but apparently everything is down on YouTube. RIP

Brian Atlasuh Twitter. Maybe I can find it on Twitter. If anybody on Discord can just put in the general chat, I'll find it from there. >> Guys, he already he already knows you guys hate me.

Shona Alan>> Nobody hates you. >> Okay, guys. Look, I know Hassan has said certain things in the past that even I don't agree with. So, it's not >> that I'm just an unconditional Hassan supporter. >> Sure.

Shona Alan>> Sure. >> Sure. >> By the way, some of these >> I've just not looked into all of the clips and based on the initial clip

Shona Alanthat's going around, I'm just not fully sure if he shot his dog. >> I hate this [ __ ] country so much. 10 clips. Okay. I mean, I've not seen 10 clips.

SPEAKER_00>> Be on a [ __ ] mountain in the middle of

Brian Atlasone sec. Oh, what the Sorry, guys. Got it fixed. Why don't we just Where do we put ourselves? Here, I guess. I guess that's fine.

SPEAKER_00>> I hate this [ __ ] country so much.

SPEAKER_00You can be on a [ __ ] mountain in the middle of Norway and get better internet than Los Angeles, California. >> He is right about the internet. We're a YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_00>> This is like a a a moment of anger. This is a moment of [ __ ] anger for like something that is just so routine, so silly, such a first world problem. But

SPEAKER_00it is emblematic of all of America's much more consequential violence. >> Look at the dog. It's the same reason as to why America, Ka, please just [ __ ] go. Just stop.

SPEAKER_00>> Wait. >> Come on. Wait. It's okay. Here. Look. Look. Look. >> What if What if the dog did clip his foot? >> America. Ka, please just [ __ ] go. Just stop.

Brian Atlas>> Clipped the foot >> like on the platform. Like >> just >> What do you mean clipped the foot on the platform? >> Like the dog like? >> Wait. Okay. Look at his Look at his arm

SPEAKER_00here. >> Ka, please just [ __ ] go. Just stop. >> Okay, so he his arm reaches for something.

Shona Alan>> Go just stop. >> That's Come on. That's a freaking shock. >> Okay. Well, is it or is it not the case that sometimes people like rush to

Brian Atlascancel someone and it turns out that they weren't like it it wasn't true? Um, >> like >> sure, but in this case, >> do you not do you not see that as like a

Shona Alandanger of cancel culture? People jumping to conclusions really quickly? >> I mean, look, if there's a mountain of evidence, then that's another thing. I'm just talking about this one clip that I've seen.

Brian Atlas>> But you just saw the clip. Okay. What do you think? Do you think he does that? I don't know. >> Do you have a dog? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Why? Why do you think the dog would yelp like that?

Shona Alan>> I mean, my dogs like bumped into things and yelped. My dog literally has probably yelped when hungry. >> Like, dogs just dogs are have a mind of

Brian Atlastheir own. >> Wait, let me wait. Holy [ __ ] guys. Wait, look at this. Oh, no, bro. >> Cry, what are you doing? You're being

Shona Alansuch a baby. [Music] Christ. What you >> Oh no. >> Okay. People are saying that one of the streamers he's friends with confirmed

Shona Alanthere was a shot caller. So I I will not say anything definitively >> on the case of Assan shocking his dog

SPEAKER_00>> violence. >> Like he uses the dog as a prop. >> The reason as to why America she just um my mom >> I mean the dog's lying down though. Is that like uncomfortable?

Brian Atlas>> Oh, please just [ __ ] go. Just stop. >> Like he's you Okay, so it's basically like, "Oh, look how relatable I am. I'm a good person. Like here's my cute dog

Brian Atlasin the background." Like it's it's uh very I don't know. It's like a He's using her as a prop, like as this performative

Shona Alantool to come across as more likable. >> Are in the world of a song. Well, aren't I your performative tool for you to be more likable right now? >> Wait for me to be more likable. >> I'm just kidding. Just kidding.

Shona Alan>> How would that How would that compute? We're just here having a convo. >> Well, his dog's lying down in the back. That's not That's not like abusive like that. Like that in itself. I'm not

Shona Alantalking about the shock. Like just having his dog lying down. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> That but you're saying that's like a like a performative prop. Well, the the issue becomes when Hold on, let me bring it here.

Brian AtlasWhen he's like, the dog wants to maybe get up and what they're trying to communicate with the shock thing is he wants the dog

Brian Atlasto stay in that specific spot. That's the issue. I don't think it's wrong to just be like want your dog to be around while you're streaming, but

Brian Atlasthe issue is is taking it to the level of my dog has to be in frame. I'm going to shock the dog if it moves. That's

Brian Atlas>> again the shock thing. I'm not defending that if that is true. I can somebody I should I let me check Door Dash if there's any shock collars

Brian Atlaswe can buy from like Petco and maybe I can Do you want to try out? >> Well, we'll put Do you want to try a shot caller? >> You can try it. >> Wait, actually you Oh, you'll shock. No, >> I'd shock you.

Brian Atlas>> Wow. >> Good times. >> You shock the [ __ ] out of me every day. >> Uh, okay. So, anyways, that's the >> They want you to shock me so bad. That's crazy.

Brian Atlas>> I don't know. Let me see. Can Door Dash I don't know if I'm logged into Door Dash. Let's see. I'm not. Let me check, guys. Let me check on my phone.

Brian AtlasI don't know if I I would I would maybe put it on my like arm or something first to test it. Let's see. Can you order a shock collar on Door Dash chat? >> I don't think so. Who would Who would

Brian Atlasneed to do that? I mean, you can order stuff from uh >> You'd definitely be the first person to ever door dash a shot caller. >> No, the people people Door Dash all

Brian Atlaskinds of stuff. Uh dog collar. Let's see. Pet leash.

Brian AtlasI don't think they have the uh I don't think you can buy one online. Well, whatever. Anyways,

Brian Atlaswhatever. Won't let me. Won't let me. By the way, guys, I got the orange. >> The whatever orange >> iPhone. It's so good. So good, guys. >> The burnt orange.

Brian Atlas>> So good. I mean, I have the case on it. >> Mine's cute. >> It looks better. What do you have? >> Oh, well, 17. You have I don't know. Was that 16? >> This is a 14 Pro. >> E,

Brian Atlas>> you can get me a new phone. >> I had the the shitty um the SC. What is that? Oh, is that like >> It's like the It has the home button. >> Oh. Oh, they like they brought it back.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, it was like I think it came out in 2022. The iPhone SE. It's basically I think an iPhone 6, but it has the home button. So, >> I had that for like 2, three years. I should have got something better sooner.

Brian AtlasI don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm stubborn, I guess. Okay. Um, what was the thing you wanted to get into? Oh, how did last show >> Oh, yeah. Last stream.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, yeah. I had this girl, I'll just pull up the clip, say that she wishes or she wouldn't be surprised. I want to get your take on this. Hold on. >> I think I'm pretty reasonable. So, if it

Brian Atlaswas something crazy, >> uh, let's see. >> Surprised if you got >> Hold on.

Brian Atlas>> You know, I wouldn't be surprised if you got like Charlie Kirk. >> What's your body count? and should be show that >> so basically I was giving her a red card >> red card

Brian Atlas>> and to be clear the I really don't like to kick people off the show. >> Well, I'll let it play then asking you to get up and leave.

SPEAKER_05>> This is SP. >> You make your money off of trolling women and you're transphobic and you're racist. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if you got like Charlie Kirk.

SPEAKER_07Oh, >> how

Shona Alan>> it actually she did make that noise. >> That was a little threatening. That was a little strange.

Brian Atlas>> Damn. >> You know, I wouldn't be surprised if you got like Charlie Kirk. >> All right. >> I don't think you don't say that to people. That's way that's crazy. Well, you know what's kind of frustrating is I

Brian AtlasI was actually so in shock that she said that like I didn't even if you watch the fuller segment. I kind of didn't I was at a loss for

Brian Atlaswords, >> but I probably should have done a a bit of a condemnation, but I was so I was kind of also when we're kicking people

Brian Atlasout, it's kind of a tense situation. You are a piece of [ __ ] Oh, >> who said that? >> Wait, hold on. >> Someone called you a piece of [ __ ] >> I don't know if they were saying I'm a piece of [ __ ]

Brian Atlas>> Maybe they're saying that to me. >> Was that on That might have been on Twitch. >> Uh but yeah, I was uh I was caught off guard. >> I just I don't like I don't like her outfit. I don't like

Shona Alan>> You didn't like the outfit? >> Yeah, the >> You should You should maybe rock some animal print. >> The leopard print bodysuit. Maybe not a bodysuit, but leopard print is fine. >> Leopard print is cute. I just don't like I don't like the silhouette

Brian Atlas>> or what she said. >> Yeah, but also I should have probably I mean the kickout was coming, >> but it can get tense and sometimes >> Oh, did you? >> I freeze up.

Brian Atlas>> Did you know she was going to like say some [ __ ] like >> Oh, well, she was saying stupid [ __ ] the entire show. I'm She was there trolling,

Brian Atlasbut somebody in my Discord, I don't know if Mara Kate is watching, she compiled a list of like three dozen, four dozen, 50, 60 different things that were crazy that this girl said.

Brian Atlas>> Oo, >> some of it w some of it was pretty Yeah. >> What are some What are some other examples? Uh, I don't even want to repeat it because it's so gross. But I mean, she's basically a

Brian Atlasbasically suggesting that she distributed uh P P3DO content. >> Oh, >> cuz she does adult content, but she says she did it started it

Brian Atlas>> when she was, let's say, younger. >> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah. Like, so I gave her the yellow card for that. I should have just gave her the red card to be honest from the get-go, but

Brian Atlas>> at that point, yeah, >> but um >> that's crazy. >> Yeah, pretty gross. Uh we have some chats coming through that we're going to pull up, but then she caught she called me a trans folk. Wait, she said I trolled the women.

Brian Atlas>> Well, I mean, >> I don't I don't really troll women. >> I don't troll women. I mean, sometimes I make I banter and and I'll do jokes, but >> I mean, what about the transphobic

Shona Alanthing? Or aren't you like I mean based on some of your other >> I wouldn't say I'm transphobic. >> Based on other some of your other viewpoints I wouldn't guess that you're too fond of like transgender.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. I don't think that's a fair characterization at all. It's it has nothing to do with transgender people and more so with what specific activists

Brian Atlasmight be espousing or the ideology surrounding it. any individual trans people or even groups of trans people. I have I don't hate them. I have no ill

Brian Atlaswill towards these people. Um some of them uh are struggling with things and I genuinely wish the best for any of these people. >> But you think they're like confused and all that, don't you?

Brian Atlas>> Uh well, I mean, I can dive into my perspective on that. My primary criticisms would be like, you know, when you're an adult, I I I might even have

Brian Atlasspecific um viewpoints as it relates to things you do as an adult, but my primary concerns would be related to children, related to

Brian Atlaspeople who are underage, and then related to sporting. And then, >> you know, a few other things. On that note, I do like I personally support I mean I'm fine with people identifying however they want to and I'll use

Shona Alanpeople's pronouns however they want to, but I don't necessarily agree with people under 18 getting like completely like altering surgeries that are

Shona Alanirreversible cuz I think that that can >> Well, what about uh hormones like uh the gender what's what's the right term for it?

Brian Atlas>> Like testosterone and estrogen. No, not the names of the specific hormones they take, but the um puberty blockers that what do you think about puberty blockers? So, okay, you don't think

Brian Atlassomebody under 18 should be able to get surgery, but what about should uh 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 year olds take uh hormone therapy, puberty blockers, these

Brian Atlassorts of things. >> I would have to ask like are the effects of those irreversible? Like are they are they okay? >> Yeah. Well, I mean the the whole idea Well, think about it like this, right? Let's say they do take the puberty

Brian Atlasblockers and they see out the entire course. What when does uh puberty typically ends? Like I guess it differs between men and women maybe a little bit, but

Brian Atlaslike what 17, 18, 19, 20 at the latest, right? Puberty, when does it end? Um, depend I mean for guys and girls it's

Brian Atlaslike a little different but like the peak of puberty is like 12, 13, 14. >> Well the peak but you would you still go through puberty like

Brian Atlas16 17 18. >> I mean yeah but not as much. >> Sure. But I mean, I don't know specifically when they say you here's when you should start taking the puberty blockers, but

Brian Atlas>> I don't know all the details on like how that how that goes for trans people. >> Well, the under I mean the even if we don't understand fully or know precisely what the doctors and

Brian Atlasmedical people are prescribing, we can sort of just logically examine it just by reason. So I mean if you think of okay, what is puberty blocker? It's to

Brian Atlasblock puberty. Okay. Generally people are going through puberty uh what 11 12

Brian Atlas13 14 15 16 17. So the idea would be to uh take these hormone drugs and block stop puberty

Brian Atlasonce you've made it. If you've been on them for the duration of time that is prescribed. >> Mhm. >> You can't like and you're let's say you start them at 13. Maybe these aren't the

Brian Atlasexact ages, but let's just for the sake of convo, let's say you started at 13 and it ends at 17, 18. >> Are they really irreversible though?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, you can't like for example, can I go back and redo puberty at my >> dinosaur age?

Shona Alan>> Well, no. I mean, okay, if they're if they're irreversible, then I guess I would agree that that should happen after >> 18. >> But the the thing is though, >> and I still think you can you can

Shona Alantransition successfully after 18. So, if you're still like you're still trying to do that at that point, then you can go through with that.

Brian AtlasBut there is in the uh the the activists and I look I'm not an expert on this but they recommend like for gender affirming

Brian Atlascare they do recommend I this isn't my position but they say you should start it prior to puberty. I mean these puberty blockers you can't take puberty

Brian Atlasblockers at 30. The only time you can take puberty blockers is prior to or close to the point of, you know, puberty. >> Yeah, but there's other things you can take to transition.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, that's true. Hormones. >> That's true. And then that's a separate conversation, but my main one of my main gripes is okay, should 10, 11, 12, 13

Brian Atlasyear olds be given puberty blockers? If I for the sake of uh debate, if I go ahead and grant and say, you know what, once you're 18, do sure do whatever you want. Uh what

Brian Atlas>> that's my take, >> right? But what about what if the standard of care as espoused by uh

Brian Atlaspeople who are activists on this front? What if they say the standard of care is to start them at 11, 12, 13 on puberty blockers?

Brian Atlas>> I wouldn't agree with saying that that should be the standard of care cuz I think I mean when you're 12. >> But who are you to say? Who are you to say? You're a 18-year-old college student. You're not a health care professional. Who are you to say? >> Well, I want to be. >> Well, one day, right?

Shona Alan>> One day. >> Well, you want to be a psychiatrist, >> right? But like I I when you're 12, you're in such a different state of mind than you're going to be eventually that I think that should be taken into account and like

Brian Atlas>> I don't know. I I definitely don't think taking that kind of thing before that age is the best decision. >> A lot of people in the chat are saying the uh YouTube chat is bad. Well, I

Brian Atlasmean, since you do psychiatrists >> Oh god. Do they treat um I assume this is actually within the

Brian Atlasthe purview of psychiatry, right? The >> like a like what kind of doctor does a trans kid go to? >> I mean, well, like a lot of trans people, >> just like a regular doctor,

Shona Alan>> like given that they're trying to literally change their identity, they're probably having some kind of mental health struggle at that point and so they probably go to a psychiatrist. M >> um but like in terms of like actual surgeries that's a completely different thing.

Brian Atlas>> Oh sure. I mean >> they would go to a surgeon >> and I you know to be charitable

Brian AtlasI do think most like trans activists I believe they're against surgery under 18. >> Yeah. No, I've I've seen that before too

Shona Alanand I I I'm very on board with that under 18. But let me ask you when you and maybe you don't have a position yet, but when you eventually become a psychiatrist, >> I hope I can, >> but yeah, if I do,

Brian Atlas>> which I don't know when would that be? Like 27, 28, 29, around there? >> Something like that. >> Would you, let's say, one of your patients is a uh 10-year-old, 11year-old boy.

Brian Atlas>> Mhm. >> And they're like, I'm a girl. I want to I'm a girl. And uh you know that you know what what

Brian Atlasthe people are telling you is that the uh to to affirm their gender part of that would include as a as a role as a health care professional as a psychiatrist to prescribe

Shona Alanpuberty blockers. Um >> no that would never be the role of a psychiatrist ever. That's not psychiatric medication. Puberty blockers are involved. >> Well, who who does give the prescriptions for for this? Do you know?

Brian Atlas>> I'm not sure. >> I can look it up. >> But definitely not. >> What kind of doctor gives kids >> puberty blockers? >> Puberty blockers trans. I guess a pediatric

Shona Alan>> Oh, yeah. Endocrinology. >> Endocrinologist. >> Hormone doctors. >> Okay. Endocrinologists. >> That makes more sense. Psych do psychiatrists >> they would they just give stuff for your

Shona Alanyour mind your brain >> right

Brian Atlasum is it just just endocr endocrinologists that would do this though >> I'm guessing so yeah if it if it's to do with hormones puberty >> endocrinologist

Brian Atlaswait I'm on Reddit this is actually kind Crazy. This is male to female. This is a male. I know the chat probably doesn't like Reddit, but uh >> a crooked psychiatrist can. That's

Brian Atlas>> Wait. So many gender Let me make it bigger. Many gender affirming care providers in the US are nurse practitioners,

Brian Atlasincluding my own. By the way, this is the male to female Reddit. You don't So NPs, that's a pretty low. I'm not >> I mean NPs are pretty >> that's a pretty low

Brian Atlas>> NPs are very licensed NPs >> well no they're licensed but I mean that's not a that's a much lower lower threshold than the medical doctor. Um I'm curious >> but like in general like it is the case

Brian Atlasthat NPs can prescribe certain things. >> Uh nurse practition p wait practitioners >> practitioners >> timeline just fingering. >> It's a lot of school. Nursing school is

Brian Atlashard to get into. They're like smart. >> Must have either a master's or doctoral doctoral degree in nursing. It takes 6 to 8 years of schooling uh versus MD.

Brian AtlasOkay. Wait. So, becoming a doctor can take 11 to 15 years. >> For NPs, the journey starts with a 4-year undergrad program. >> Okay. I mean, it's a lower threshold, right?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Um, let's see. I'm curious if there's anything else. Wait, what? Whoa. Whoa. What? Hold on.

Brian Atlas>> Flabotists. >> Wait, what? Hold on. Flabboamus. Wait. Flabotamists. >> You know what that is? >> Yeah. It's the person that takes blood.

Shona Alan>> I'm pretty sure you can become a phabotamist in like >> Oh, it takes like a few weeks and get a license. >> Yeah. It's not like super crazy, >> but they they can't do that alone. They would have to work with someone more

Brian Atlaslicensed probably. >> I mean, here's the thing, right? I'm pretty sure you could just go to your general doctor. Like, your general doctor could

Shona Alancould just your GP. Oh, okay. Here you go. Here's some puberty blockers. M >> I don't think there's any >> No, I think I think that's that's

Brian Atlassomething that needs to be thought through a lot. >> But I mean like for example, right, >> more than a 13-year-old, >> let's say you're having panic attacks. >> Uh you go to your GP, >> your GP can just put you on SSRIs or

Brian Atlasthey can give you like um >> can GPS do >> benzo? Oh yeah, your GP can give you Adavan, they can give you uh benzo, they

Brian Atlascan give you SSRI. So, you don't need to go to a specialist necessarily unless it's like way outside the scope of the GP, but I'm pretty sure the GP Yeah, you

Brian Atlasjust Oh, hey, I'm I'm anxious. I have panic attacks. Okay, here's here's some benzo. >> Yeah. No, Advan is a benzo. >> Wait, remind me what you're abbreviating GP for. >> Oh, general practitioner. >> Like an MD physician. Yeah, that's a

Shona Alandoctor. >> It's an MD. But the GP in this case who's prescribing that would be a psychiatrist. >> No, the GP would just be your uh primary care doctor. >> Oh, so like internal medicine. >> They would they would most of the time

Brian Atlasrefer you to a psychiatrist. >> I think if you were having >> Yeah. I mean, they might also double double down like, okay, well, here's SSRI, here's here's some laorazzipam,

Brian Atlasbut maybe you should see a psychologist, maybe you should see a psychiatrist. like how can we help you treat your what's the cause of your anxiety, depression? But uh

Brian Atlasthe the GP, your primary care doctor can absolutely be the first line of prescribing like SSRIs, all those kinds of things. >> So, >> but usually to get those you need like a

Shona Alanevaluation, like a mental health evaluation that needs to be done with a mental health professional. >> Yeah, I guess. I mean, you could just go to your doctor and be like, "Hey, I

Shona Alanhaving some anxiety." >> I don't know if that's necessarily true. >> Can I get some larzazzipam? You know, >> most of the time, I think when people are trying to obtain those medications, they're going to mental health professionals. >> Well, what's the what constitutes mental

Shona Alanhealth? >> I mean, I mean, I guess it is true that there are like general practitioners who prescribe psychiatric medication, but >> I don't know. I think I think that's more that should be something

Brian Atlas>> for more like for continuity of care like a bit more nuanced treatment plan then uh yeah you'd probably want to see

Brian Atlassee somebody but I mean just your regular doctor will pretty frequently just hey doctor I'm depressed

Brian Atlasokay here's Lexapro >> here's an SSRI they'll give you like if unless you're having really severe like something else or something severe. >> I don't think it's great that they're doing that then. I think that should be

Shona Alansomething that's really thoroughly investigated. >> Maybe I'm I'm the next one. >> Instead of just rushing to prescribe medications. >> Yeah. >> I mean, even then, like a lot of psychiatrists do rush to prescribe medications. But >> yeah,

Brian Atlas>> but as far as Okay, she made this comment about uh I wouldn't be surprised if you get unlived like Charlie. She called me a transphobic. M >> she called me. Oh yeah, we were exploring the transphobe sub, then the

Brian Atlasracist stuff. We'll talk about the racist stuff, but um I guess finishing off with the trans phobic stuff. Uh what do you think about trans people in sports?

Shona Alan[Music] >> I think the whole reason that sports is like divided by gender is because of biology. And the whole thing with like me accepting trans people is that it's like more of I see it as like a societal

Shona Alanthing. It's like your identity, right? Um, but I see that as separate than biology. Therefore, when it comes to something based on biology, I can see why >> like if you're going to be trans and you want to go into sports, then that is like a trade-off you're going to have to

Shona Alanbe willing to make because like sports is not it's not separated on the basis of oh, like be who you are. It's based on biology and the fact that men and women are very different biologically like

Brian Atlas>> So, are you against trans people participating in uh >> Well, I think they can participate so long as they participate in the sex they were assigned at birth. >> Oh, sure. Yeah. My issue like if if

Brian Atlasyou're a trans woman, you can compete with the men, but you acknowledge that the push is not for that. There there's no really there's really no exclusion

Brian Atlasfrom trans women competing with men. The exclusion occurs and this is where many of them want to compete. They want to compete with biological women. >> Yeah. >> So, are you fine with exclusion?

Shona Alan>> I am. >> Oh, okay. >> I mean, if you're if you're going to be trans, like that's already such a big life decision and you're going to say, "Okay, I want to have a professional athletic career." then like you can't expect that to operate based on your

Shona Alanidentity. >> I think that's different. I think I see like gender identity as a lot more societal and I think you have to you have to look at the differences biologically and like see that as a separate thing. >> So you're fine with

Brian Atlasum like let's say there's an outright ban preventing trans women from competing with biological women. Are you fine with that?

Shona AlanRepeat that. >> Oh, just like a a ban >> on like trans men competing with bi like >> no trans trans women competing with biological women. >> I can see that.

Shona Alan>> You're such a transphobe. >> That's not transphobic. I'm still I am still totally for these people identifying how they want to in society and being who they are and like I will

Shona Alanrespect your pronouns. just I mean when it comes to sports it is it's based on the fact that men and women are very biologically different. >> Okay. I mean I don't think we disagree on the sports thing then.

Shona Alan>> Yeah. >> I mean what about like people choosing to identify that way in society aside from sports >> past the age of 18 especially too? >> Um >> would you be willing to call someone

Brian Atlastheir preferred pronouns? I'd call them their name. Like if they change their name legally, I' I'd be willing to call them their name >> and not their pronouns. >> Uh probably not. Like but there might be

Brian Atlassome context like if there's some context where it would just be more convenient for me to do it. Like I don't know if I'm like at the DMV and like whoever serving me

Brian Atlasis like trans or whatever or I'm somewhere like I'm not going to go out of my way to be a dick. And if it's just more convenient for me to just be like, "Okay, whatever." Like, say it. But if we're sitting here right now having a

Brian Atlasconversation about like, do I do I think that they're a woman? No. I don't hate them. I I don't have any

Shona Alanbad feelings towards them, but do I think that they're a woman? No. >> Yeah. >> And you disagree with me on that?

Shona AlanI mean, I do see like gender identity as more like like I see like like how you want to identify as a choice and I'm willing to respect people based on the

Brian Atlaschoice that they make. >> Yeah. I mean, you can still respect somebody, but by the way guys, do you prefer

Shona Alanthis or this? Do you prefer the big or the small chat? I mean, like my general take when it comes to a variety of issues that I've expressed before is literally like do what you want to do.

Shona AlanIdentify how you want to identify so long as you're not harming others or yourself. >> Sure. >> And I see this as just a part of that. >> One second. I'm going to adjust the