CONFRONTING Daisy Chen?! ROAST Episode! Andrew Wilson! Are They VICTIMS?! | Dating Talk #160

Date: 2024-05-13

Duration: 7h 12m

Guests

Brian Atlas

KKelly (DT162)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_02Noel(guest)

SPEAKER_03Christine(guest)

SPEAKER_04Kelly/Destiny/Ateri/Maddie (mixed)(guest)

SPEAKER_05Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_11Daisy Chen(guest)

SPEAKER_14Destiny(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteDaisy admits revenge motive: "I'm here to take you down" — played from her own video; then admits "that's my revenge to be honest he hurt me I want to hurt him"

ControversyDaisy admits premeditated recording: she recorded the phone call with Walter before the call ended, intending to release it as revenge

QuoteDaisy on her motivation: "I've never done this to anyone in my life — people have hurt me in the past — just the fact he took that away from you... that's why I have so much hate"

QuoteNoel reveals prior violent coerced abortion by a different ex-boyfriend (not Walter): "he dragged me by the hair into his car and drove me two hours away somewhere I didn't know and literally quite literally forced me... I ended up in the hospital"

ControversyAndrew accuses Daisy of entrapment and felony: "you came in on a student visa you committed a felony by recording him and then releasing it — and on top of that... your entire motivation around this was purely Revenge related"

ControversyAndrew demands Daisy and Noel leave the studio: "Get the f*** out of here. Your stories are bullshit." Brian declines to kick them. Daisy and Noel stay but leave voluntarily later (~6:46 mark).

ControversyAndrew calls Daisy a murderer on Mother's Day during live broadcast: "you murdered your child. Happy Mother's Day. Murderer." — Daisy had stated the abortion was not murder from her Buddhist worldview

QuoteSelf-ratings round: Daisy 8, Noel 7-8, Destiny 10 (for right person), Kelly 6, Christine ~6, Gustavo 7, Andrew ~3-5.

ControversyAndrew questions Daisy about Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Tiananmen Square; speculates she may be a CCP spy/agent. Daisy refuses to answer any political questions. Brian skeptical but amused.

QuoteDaisy shows $30,000 bracelet at table: she and Walter each paid $15K for the real one after he first gave her a fake $30K bracelet. She threw the fake one back in his face.

QuoteDaisy and Noel voluntarily leave the show during the roast section after sustained hostility from Andrew and TTS donations.

Topics Discussed

Introductions and relationship statuses

Brian introduces panel. Each guest states name, age, location, occupation, relationship status. Daisy details plastic surgery history; Brian shows before/after Instagram photos. Noel discusses traditional values, monogamy, nuclear family, and all her relationships involving cheating. Kelly declines to share story about boyfriend. Christine discusses relationship/overlap with frat guy. Andrew Wilson introduced last.

Daisy Chen background and plastic surgery review

Brian reviews Daisy's pre-surgery Instagram photos (2013, 2015, 2018, 2020). Discussion of breast augmentation, nose job, eyelid surgery. Panel asked about views on plastic surgery. Poll on before/after preference.

Noel traditional values discussion

Noel discusses importance of nuclear family, monogamy, traditional marriage. Debate on criminalizing infidelity. Panel opinions on cheating laws.

Daisy and Walter timeline confrontation

Daisy gives timeline of relationship with Walter (Fresh and Fit): met Nov 2023, official Dec 2023, visited Miami, got pregnant, Walter broke up March 25, found out pregnant April 1, had abortion. Played excerpts from leaked phone call. Showed DM receipts. Admitted to premeditated revenge recording.

Abortion debate and coercion arguments

Extended debate on whether Walter coerced Daisy into abortion. Andrew Wilson interrogates Daisy and Noel on responsibility, choice, coercion definitions. Covers abortion law, coercion statutes, Buddhist and Christian views on abortion, mutual responsibility for unprotected sex. Brian argues Daisy escalated by leaking calls; Daisy says it was revenge and warns other women.

Noel's encounter with Walter and consent discussion

Noel describes her encounter with Walter: flown to Miami, unprotected sex, he finished inside her without warning first time. Took Plan B. Discussion of consent, responsibility, and whether this was coercion.

Paternity question

Andrew questions whether the pregnancy was definitively Walter's child. Daisy argues Walter never denied it; he had a vasectomy rumor (addressed). No DNA test done (pregnancy terminated). Daisy had ultrasound at ~4-5 weeks.

Noel's prior coerced abortion (violent ex)

Noel briefly reveals a prior violent coerced abortion by a different ex-boyfriend (physically dragged her to clinic, she ended up hospitalized). Distinct from Walter situation.

Traditional segment (Destiny Instagram review)

Brian pulls up Destiny's Instagram to assess if she is "traditional." Bikini/booty photos visible. Discussion: traditional in relationship but not in public presentation.

Destiny's ex-cousin story

Destiny recounts that in high school her ex-boyfriend confessed to having sexual relationship with his male cousin since age 10. She had suspected infidelity; confronted him.

Self-ratings (1-10 scale)

Brian asks each guest to rate looks 1-10. Daisy: 8, Noel: 7-8, Destiny: 10 (for right person), Kelly: 6, Christine: ~6, Gustavo: 7, Andrew: ~3-5. Extended debate on what a 10 means after Destiny claims 10.

Ateri's story (cheating while mother hospitalized)

Ateri recounts that her ex cheated on her while her mother was dying in hospital. Step-father had also recently died. She hasn't dated since.

CCP and political accusations against Daisy

Andrew accuses Daisy of being a CCP agent after she refuses to answer questions about Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Tiananmen Square. Brian skeptical of the CCP angle; Daisy denies.

Brian's dating type / panel type discussion

Maddie identifies Brian's type: small women (height starts with 4), white or Asian, minimal makeup, no plastic surgery, no promiscuous past, no mental illness. Kelly mentions Brian and a previous guest 'Emily.'

Bumble swiping segment

Each guest given 20 Bumble profile swipes. Most guests had 0 or very few yes swipes. Brian also does female profiles segment. Discussion of pickiness and photo quality.

Chaos/roast section and Daisy/Noel departure

TTS donation roast messages at $20 threshold. Heavy anti-Daisy/Noel content. Champagne opened (Jeremy $1000 donation). Brian tipsy. Daisy and Noel leave ~6:46 mark. Body count round at close: Gustavo: mentioned; Madison: no longer answers; others not captured.

Transcript

Page 3 of 8

Brian Atlasthe abortion yeah okay do you think that you kind of brought some of this on yourself yes because I truthfully like

Brian Atlaslooking at all this retrospectively had you kept all this private had you not leaked the phone call cuz I mean he he uh they have

Brian Atlasgrounds to have been upset with you for leaking a private phone call yeah you could argue that that's uh that's a pretty big breach of trust even though you guys had broken up and I mean look

Brian Atlasuh maybe he wasn't moving in the the best way when it comes to his relationship with you but I mean leaking a private well it's not just leaking the phone call I mean you intentionally

Brian Atlasthere was like uh forethought it was premeditated you recorded the phone call with the intention of then releasing it yeah um so I mean perhaps none of this stress would

Brian Atlashave been caused if you just tried to handle this privately and you did take in in this conflict in this war that you you're now finding yourself in you did kind of take the first shot

Noelat least from how it looks maybe yeah I think whether it was leaked or not he was still going to tell her to abort it and that's still going to cause stress yes but but she says I mean I was already very stressed when he told me he

Brian Atlasdidn't want the kid in the beginning like I gave him four days to think about it nothing happened he never replied my message after all but I mean just myself being involved with uh you know being

Brian Atlasout there publicly doing a podcast and I mean it can be very stressful getting you know I don't if you got any death threats I've had death death threats I've had nasty messages uh and then you

Brian Atlashave people lying about you you have people saying nasty things about you a lot uh I don't I don't suspect any of that would have occurred if this would

Brian Atlashad been kept private and so uh just seems like uh that's because I'm not saying I'm not saying fresh was perfect but it does seem in terms of making this whole thing public they

Brian Atlasobviously responded to you but you kind of once you open that door you ort of what's it opened Pandora's Box and kind of well okay they you went public he's

Brian Atlasgoing to obviously respond publicly MH um yeah okay fine you make sense me yeah um at a minute I'm taking the

Brian Atlasconsequence yeah for my behavior and in that video an hour and five minutes in you you were speaking about uh ABA Atlas yeah me and him we're actually related

Brian Atlasbecause we share the last name apparently Papa yeah okay we're not I'm not really we have the same last name but we're not really um you were upset that he betrayed you by leaking DMS yeah

Daisy Chenisn't that precisely what you did to Walter yeah that's leaked a phone call that's different though cuz ABA and I we don't like I didn't hurt him like or anything like didn't hurt who ABA like I

Daisy Chendidn't do anything bad to him like he didn't have to leak this message the reason why he did it because he probably want to show off you know or he wants to like he cuz he hates fresh and fit so like that's going to make him look good

Daisy Chenokay your ex-girlfriend actually hate on me stuff like that and he actually like I like he had like a huge he almost hit 1 million review after he did an interview with me like he's the benefit

Brian Atlashe get all the benefits after the interview like he didn't have to leak the private message like that was just like but that's what you that's precisely what you did to Walter and you didn't well you went beyond just leaking

Daisy ChenDMS you also leaked you recorded premeditated recorded a phone call and leas the phone call yeah but ABA didn't have to because I didn't I didn't I wasn't in a relationship with ABA we

Daisy Chenwere just cooperating like why do you have to leak this message and he doesn't have to like he's a a big YouTuber like that just shows him that I really had a respect my respect

Daisy Chenfor him that's why I was very honest with him by the way what if by the way he knew that I was getting abortion I told him early oh so he didn't so he act like oh I'm surprised I didn't know she

Daisy Chenwas getting abortion he knows everything in the beginning I treated him like a friend you felt betrayed though by by ABA and for no reason he want what what he wants you feel like so you feel like

Andrew Wilsonyou you when people and when people betray you what right that you should be able to uh go after them don't you think I think so don't you think you should be able to go after people hard who betray

Andrew Wilsonyou yeah and do and do horrible things to you don't you feel like that so think about how you feel about what ABA did to you yeah would it be fair to say that

Daisy Chenthat's how Walter feels about what you did to him times a 100 what I do to him to cost to cost well in terms of like it didn't cost him

Brian Atlasanything anyway in terms of the leaking the private cuz you ABA he leaked the private DMS between you and him you leak this these phone calls text messages Etc that's probably the the way that you

Brian Atlasfeel about that is how Walter feels about what your leaks but probably way worse cuz I mean there was more leaks it was much more

Brian Atlasimpactful um but and also you said that you feel like you didn't do anything wrong to Aba correct yeah I don't think I did anything wrong cuz that was what what if

Brian AtlasI told you that maybe Walter feels that way that he feels he didn't do anything wrong uh he didn't do anything wrong by well I don't know but maybe he feels that way but that's not true right I

Brian Atlasdon't know precisely what that's not true everybody knows that's not true what you said it seems like your main quarrel is that he got you pregnant it's

Daisy Chennot clear to me though if that is enough pretext to uh get revenge it's that it's okay he can just be honest with me like he didn't have to play all

Daisy Chenthese game to make me pregnant and dump him and didn't want the kid you know that's like very something very serious for me like I really wanted the kid okay that's like something you wished for for a long time then you you couldn't have

Daisy Chenit you know what I mean that's like that makes me suffer a lot that's why I have so he took and he took and he took that away from you that's why I I have so much hate that's why I did this I've never done this I swear I've never done

Andrew Wilsonthis to anyone in my life people have hurt me in the past just the fact he took that away from you I mean how could you even help yourself but go after him like this right

Andrew WilsonI don't know what he trying to say but well I'm just saying saying I'm agreeing with you I'm saying like you said you've never done this to anybody you've never felt hatred like this I've never I've never and that's yeah never I mean cuz

Brian Atlashe took this away from you right yes yeah so I mean he deserves everything that's coming to him and then some doesn't he moving on in the video at the 11250 Mark in that video you I think you

Brian Atlaswere talking about Noel you said that Noel she's a victim because he slept with her without a condom and nutted in her without telling her okay cuz but you said you don't view

Noelyourself as a victim right not necessarily like I did consent to have sex with him and I did go through with having sex without a condom but I and you consented to that just without a

Noelcondom yes but prior I told him I don't want children out of wedlock though okay sure I wanted him to use a condom at first but in that moment it just didn't happen but you don't just go and nut in someone like without their permission

Noellike imagine this guy's a gambler he's just playing Russian oulette imagine you're having SE with someone imagine you're having sex with someone they just punch you in the face and then they say oh and then they say oh I'm sorry I'm

Noelinto BDSM at that point it's assault cuz you didn't talk about that prior yeah you probably should we talked about it prior you talked about prior yes and you would think he would get yeah I probably

Brian Atlasshouldn't knock this girl up I I'll get to that in a little bit here but at the 117 50 Mark you said don't let a man take advantage of you I think that's you Daisy you said don't let a man take

Brian Atlasadvantage of you do you so do you feel that fresh took advantage of you yes I'm just curious

Daisy Chenhow because he W really planning a future with me but he told me he was so that got me food so I decided to

Daisy Chenhave a kit with this this person he was he's a good talker he like would just say stuff to you guys and he he made me feel like he was serious I'm telling you I have dating I

Daisy Chenhave a lot a lot of dating like experience but this man he's very good he was like even like before a week he broke up with me he was like oh I'm

Daisy Chenplanning a long turn I'm going to get us a house what if you get pregnant H okay so you feel like he was like leading you on yeah yeah I am okay just like anybody

Daisy Chenjust tell me like I don't want a relationship I don't want have kids even though before him I was single for a while I didn't I was okay wait one question so you you said you were you

Daisy Chenguys were in love right yes how soon after meeting him did you say I love you uh that's before I went back to China so like so how long would you say

Daisy Chenyou had been dating before uh like two months two months okay yeah and that's that's after I met his mother me like 3 years to say that [ __ ] it's because he

Daisy Chensaid his mother you met you met the mom the mom's yeah multiple times he took me to his country Barbados to his mother and his entire family so like I don't know what that's

Destinymean I've never seen D what were you looking for out of him like if he stepped up like financially and and he told you you know I don't want the baby but I will take care of you I'll take care of the baby financial needs would

Daisy Chenthat have changed the outcome of your abortion yeah defin so like if the father is there and the father is a good guy and he provides

Daisy Chenyeah she just wanted someone to provide not not financially not necessarily just financially I mean financially and physically and like emotionally to the kid yeah cu the kid deserve both

DestinyParenthood cuz I didn't have it when I was young my mom left me when I was 10 yeah so it's but my question is that if he told you you know I don't want to be part of the baby's life but I will take

Destinycare of you guys financially you and the baby and um you know that's that's not okay no no okay um couple more things so

Brian AtlasI I guess I'm just curious like so why try to expose him like because it seemed like you're trying to paint him like I don't know as a hypocrite or a dead beat or not a Christian man because because

Brian Atlashe wanted an abortion but it seems very clear that at least from kind of the conversation we've had and from some of the stuff that's you know been talked

Daisy Chenabout on the internet like it seems like you had no intention of actually keeping the baby is that fair to say I had intention when I called him and when I

Daisy Chenand even though uh when things happened I wasn't like still wasn't like sure I was like going back and forth thinking

Daisy Chenwhat to do like on the only like I I think actually I went to the like uh Parenthood Twice first time when I tried

Andrew Wilsonto get rid of I didn't I left I was crying I didn't okay and I did it I went back the second time but so can I ask um just briefly I was just curious if I get some

Andrew Wilsonclarification have you ever taken plan b or any contraception of any kind before no we don't have this like we have like a emergency pill if someone like in China yeah yeah but we don't have birth control like that we have to yeah have

Andrew Wilsonyou ever taken that e mergency pill before yes I did yeah before before all this not not with Walter yeah but if no no I know but in but in China you've taken it before yes I did yeah how does

Daisy Chenthat how does that one work uh you have to wait till you're pregnant and then you take it you take it like the morning after uh I I can take in within 48 Hours wait so

Andrew WilsonAndrew I think when it comes to the plan with the Plan B pill it's possible that you can take that pill prior to conception sure that's why I'm asking about this specific pill she's talking

Daisy Chenabout I'm just wondering right do you do you have to conceive or how does that pill in China the emergency pill works so uh after after the intimacy you can

Daisy Chentake it within 70 hours 72 hours that's the maximum time okay and you and you have taken those pills before right I I

Brian Atlashad yeah cuz yeah okay wait so when you were trying to because like it seems your goal is to like expose him

Brian Atlasexpose him for like being a pro-choicer being a dead beat is that yes but like so why try to expose him for that when I

Brian Atlasmean that's you opted to get the abortion so why expose him for

Daisy Chenessentially when I did it it was just like very emotional you know like I was just very very mad at that time and I didn't I didn't want to get emotion at that time time when I exposed it I only

Daisy Chendecided later later cuz things get really worse and and he never showed up after that it's like he gave me no choice well hold on I mean plenty of

Daisy Chenwomen who are pregnant but even if the dad's totally out of the picture yeah and to in this country but not in my country it's not something very incommon men take accountability in China if they

Daisy Chenimpregnant a woman they will take resp responsibility it's something that's abnormal for me but he's he's an American right or barad like I had I didn't know like I only got here last

Andrew Wilsonyear well you were planning to stay here right um like well now wait wait now hang on wait a second I'm I'm confused maybe you can clarify this for me if you have taken this pill before in China but

Andrew Wilsonyou say that the culture in China is that they always take accountability why take the pill because sometimes you have casual sex and things could

Andrew Wilsonhappen Okay so this um so when you're having casual sex in China yeah so when you you were when you would have casual sex in China from time to time you would take this pill to prevent yourself from conceiving

Brian Atlasmhm okay I just wanted to get clarification on this go ahead Brian I'm sorry yeah yeah yeah so I mean it just seems like so the efforts to expose him and ruin his

Brian Atlasreputation for precisely the same behavior and conduct that you ultimately did you wanted to expose him here's this Christian man who tried to get me to get

Brian Atlasan abortion here's this guy who he seems like he's going to be a dead beat but you you got an abortion so I'm just like

Brian Atlaswhy expose him for conduct that you're basically the the his conduct is your conduct I told you when I exposed him I

Kelly/Destiny/Ateri/Maddie (mixed)didn't want to do the abortion I think what he's trying to say is he's trying to like you kind of enabled him to do that to you because there was all these signs like you know

Kelly/Destiny/Ateri/Maddie (mixed)he's not a good not a good dad if you watch fresh and fit he's not boyfriend not husband I don't watch fresh and fit

Kelly/Destiny/Ateri/Maddie (mixed)and what it just come like you you basically just got like like why expose him if you agreed to his terms I don't agree his ter but you did

Kelly/Destiny/Ateri/Maddie (mixed)it but you went through with the abortion that's what we're saying that's what he wanted you to do and you went through with it so you kind of did agree to his terms cuz you didn't have to have the

Andrew Wilsonabortion you know you yeah but people people well but but hang on hang on in her defense though right this he deserved to be he hang on

Daisy Chenin your defense he deserved to be punished for this you know I mean he deserved it right yes then what's the point like what what what the question

Daisy Chenabout here like if you think I did some I did wrong by leaking his message fine I accept it but if you say he's he didn't do anything wrong I don't agree

Andrew Wilsonwith it like I don't see what like what what's the argument here like I'm not well I'm not saying I'm not I'm not making any accusations at all I'm just saying in your defense if something like

Andrew Wilsonthat happened to me and I felt like I was fooled in some way or I felt kind of like I had been made a fool of I would be super upset and I would want to get

Andrew Wilsonsome revenge on a person you know what I mean like if that happened to me I that's how I would feel I would literally feel like I needed to get some kind of Revenge on them for making me feel like I was a fool does that make

Andrew Wilsonsense you would what's that I said you would yeah would I mean don't you don't you feel like that too yes yeah exactly I mean and and I guess I guess that's my

Brian AtlasP perspective too right like okay I understand what you mean right now so yeah yeah okay I I'll turn it back over yeah so I mean it see like in this

Brian Atlassituation though you said that he forced you to get the abortion um but I'll know at least here in the United Nick could

Brian Atlasyou close that so here in the United States I mean Walter and men in general have really zero Reproductive Rights at all so as a woman if you want to abort

Brian Atlasthe child you can if you want to keep it you can there's nothing a man can do in either scenario to either force you to keep it or force you to get an abortion now it could certainly be the case that

Brian Atlasthe man in in a scenario where a woman's pregnant could be a terrible father um I'm not I'm not making that accusation towards fresh but just to make an

Brian Atlasargument um just because a man's a would be a a dead beat or you know he's causing you stress uh that would not be him forcing

Noelyou to get an abortion can I say something sure coercion for abortion is actually illegal in all 50 states there is laws against this well when you say coercion what do you mean precisely

Noelintimidating somebody threatening them online embarrassing them you could look all of this up online okay let me look it up yeah well um coion AB to this I I

Noelactually would agree that coercion to make somebody do anything regardless of what it is would be a crime in all 50 states not just abortion right like if you're a man and you're going to knock someone up the best bet is to just not

Noeltell them to abort it and let them make the decision forsel instead of telling them oh I can't afford it or oh yeah sure but but but to my point if you don't mind responding to my point

Andrew Wilsoncoercion for anything would be illegal in all 50 states correct yeah so it's I mean it's not specific to abortion it's specific to anything which you utilize

Andrew Wilsoncoercion which is why coercion is such a specific term usually coercion has some type of implicit threat of violence or something like this I mean surely neither neither of you ever felt like

Andrew Wilsonyou were physically threatened by by uh Walter right like you certainly didn't feel threatened part yes you felt physically threatened by Walter yeah not

Daisy ChenWalter but I believe I believe myON represent Walter because he was silent and myin was saying that he wish he's a

Daisy Chenwoman so he can punch me in the face he can beat me up and all that like he on public he said that many times hang on but you just said that you didn't feel

Andrew Wilsonany type of coercion from Walter like he he didn't feel physically threatened from him neither of you felt physically threatened from Walter I mean I heard the call and Walter said in the call he said well what are you going to do about

Andrew Wilsonit and he said nothing he said nothing I'm not going to do anything about it that doesn't sound like a

Andrew Wilsonthreat is he a part of fresh and fit uh well well sure but if I was a that makes let's assume for a second that that me and Brian were Partners on whatever

Andrew Wilsonwe're not but assume that we were if Brian said bad things about you and I didn't say bad things about you how would that be me coercing you I don't

Andrew Wilsonunderstand that wouldn't be me doing anything to you so I'm just saying if you didn't feel actually physically threatened in any way by Walter either of you his company which who represent

Andrew Wilsonhim did I'm sorry say that again I just want to make sure I heard it cor his company his company oh oh yeah his his company but his his company ever physically

Andrew Wilsonthreaten you or fresh and fit represents Walter Weeks well no wouldn't Walter represent fresh and fit

Daisy Chenand his lawyer told him to not say anything shout out James hon yeah and then so he couldn't say

Andrew Wilsonanything so he decided to let myin to do all everything yeah all of that yeah but I mean you would have to hold myin responsible for that right but

Andrew WilsonWalter himself did either of you actually I I just want to make sure I'm clear on this did either of you ever actually feel threatened in any way

Brian Atlasshape or form physically MH from Walter no I didn't no no but neither of you did okay yeah thank you yeah and I pulled this up so I mean the at least the

Brian Atlasinitial debt definition here from Oxford dictionary this I just typed this into Google coercion the practice of persuading someone to do something by

Brian Atlasusing force or threats um so is it your guys's position that he coerced uh either of you in any way they have a

Noelsite cafa the center of abortion something but there's specific laws on abortion

Brian Atlascoercion on okay yes they do have specific laws on that okay there's laws yes what can I Google them yeah go ahead what what would it be called what should

Brian AtlasI do it's like the center CAA something like that CFA Institute just look up abortion coersion and the link should pop up

Brian Atlasokay so there's a it's a criminal law abortion coercion I'm not too sure about the details on it so and coercion has to

Brian Atlasinvolve like like a threat or it could just like for example would me like pressuring you to get an abortion would that be coercion yes that's coercion

Brian Atlaslike if I was like babe I'm not ready for a child please get an abortion would that be coercion um I mean I don't know specifically but no in your view of whatever the term coercion is if we were

Brian Atlasdating I got you pregnant I didn't want to have the kid and I was like babe I'm not ready to have the kid can't have the kid don't want the kid please please please get an abortion is that coercion I would consider that coercion really

Noelyeah what about um what about if somebody if a guy uh begged for sex that way would that be coercion I mean that's a really weird

Andrew Wilsonthing to compare that to but I don't know I mean I heard that I heard I heard Tales From women like that when I was in high school and then College age women all the time is that is that verion from

Noelyour worldview if they just beg you to do something a bunch I guess that would depend on who you ask me personally but I'm asking you yeah I mean no I would still say no hold

Brian Atlason well let me okay let me even use a different example if let's say I would I just asked you I

Noeljust said Hey listen um I'm not ready to have a kid um would you consider getting an abortion is that coercion if it's a question no but if you're saying I can't have a kid I'm broke I don't have money

Noelfor it I don't want a kid that's coercion you can't get someone pregnant and then tell them to abort it just because you don't want the kid that's totally up to the woman and the man has

Brian Atlasno sure but I mean ask so I think even in the prior example I asked for it um so you're saying if it's if it's a statement instead of a question then it would be coercion yes what if what if

Brian Atlasthe statement is for example I'm just coming up with this off the top of my head but hey babe I'm not ready I want to I I love you but I'm not ready yet to

Brian Atlashave a kid maybe down the road we can do that um I'd like I'm not ready to have a kid I'd like for you to get an abortion is that coercion I mean not in that sense cuz

Noelyou well it's not a question I'm stating I'd like for you to get an abortion is that coercion if you're saying I would like for you to instead of I'm telling you to then no that's not coercion it's

Brian Atlasnot clear to me though even if a man were to say I'm telling you to get an abortion first off he has he would have no legal right to actually force you to get it but even if he were to say it um

Brian Atlasthere's a reason that they have laws on this I mean if you have the link let's look at it so you there if a man were to say I'm I'm telling you to get an abortion but he has no intention of otherwise

Brian Atlasbeing mean to you or threatening you with in any way he's not threatening you he's just saying I'm telling you to get an abortion I'm telling you babe you have to get an abortion I can't do this

Kelly/Destiny/Ateri/Maddie (mixed)is that coercion I think so yes but do you think it's fair if he's saying that like to the woman and then she still keeps the baby and has it yeah she should be able to do whatever she wants

Andrew Wilsonwith it I'm not an expert in the definition of coercion that's why it's not clear to me if that would be coercion to just be like well any of the scenarios I get I wonder um if I can if

Andrew WilsonI can ask just a a very brief question um to you uh and I'm sorry I I do take notes as we're going and I usually get all the gals name but I had an ear issue uh and I wasn't actually able to hear uh

Andrew Wilsonyour name it was the gal wearing the crucifix next to um the the blonde gy with a crucifix over on the the right side of the table from my perspective

Noelwhat did you say your name was no talk about me Noel Noel okay yeah Noel uh you're a Christian correct yeah I was raised Mormon but I'm just Christian

Andrew Wilsonokay from your worldview is abortion murderer um I think it is yeah yeah yeah so by that logic then is the gal sitting next to you a

Andrew Wilsonmurderer I honestly that's I don't want to share my opinion on that because it really doesn't matter to me well if if abortion is murder yeah baby don't worry you can say that but there is re is the

Andrew WilsonG sitting next to you a murderer and there is a reason why right and we just I just I just would like your answer if you don't mind if you believe abortion is murder is the

Noelgal sitting next to you a murderer I think she murdered a fetus that's what I think but a fetus is a fetus equivalent to a baby to you yes yeah so then she

Noelmurdered a baby yeah but that's her decision and I'm not going to judge her for it and I'm not going to judge no I I I understand I I usually don't judge people who murder babies

Andrew Wilsoneither I mean I I'm not going to really respond to that okay well anyway I'll I'll turn it back over to Brian but I did want to get that clarified because I don't I just want to make sure that I

Andrew Wilsonget the World Views down and that you are assisting right this second with a person who you believe murders babies I just I just want to make make sure I got

Noelthat clear well I think everyone's missing the entire principle of the whole thing and that's fresh and they know lied and deceived okay and he's also a massive

Noelhypocrite they use their platform to urge men to step up as fathers or to be high value men and then they go and do the exact is hypocritical to support murderers when you're against abortion is it hypocritical for you to do that as

Noelyou point out other people's hypocrisy well God tells us to love thy neighbor so no well how then you should love fresh right I never said I hated him I'm just calling him out for bad behavior

Andrew Wilsonwell but why why it's it's interesting to me that you would assist the woman next to you uh who has the same bad behavior that you were accusing fresh of as you accuse fresh of being a hypocrite

Andrew Wilsonwould that not also make you a hypocrite as you call him a murderer no it was would you not have to call the person next to you a murderer as well hang on let her answer let her answer I have a neutral stance on this I don't think

NoelDaisy's in the right I don't think fresh isn't the right but I have my own side that happened with fresh and that's all I care about their details that's their business she can speak on what she wants

Brian Atlasto speak on but I'm not going to speak on her situation I'll only speak on mine okay got it I just wanted to make sure I had that clear I have a few more notes Here uh I will just to the rest of the

Brian Atlaspanel I'll open it up to you guys here soon we just have a lot of notes Here with Daisy so um at least for Daisy just to conclude um I don't know if I'm old

Brian Atlasschool but in my book you never leak anything to do with family friends or somebody you're dating

Brian AtlasI think that's always private even if a relationship or somebody you're dating maybe it doesn't even end the best uh I don't think you put them on blast

Brian Atlaspublicly I think that's my primary gripe here um and it is dating related because I mean should you go public should you leak stuff um I do

Brian Atlasthink Daisy uh I do think you escalated things here I've been following this thing uh I'm not saying fresh is perfect okay but I do think this was an

Brian Atlasunnecessary escalation I think I do think you're in the wrong uh in multiple ways here uh and in life people are going to mess up

Brian Atlasagain I'm not saying fresh Walter what he did was perfect I don't know all the details I don't necessarily think it means you have to go public though and I think it made the whole

Brian Atlassituation uh bad for you made it bad for them uh and I do you know I again I'll know all the details of your guys' private relationship I do think though that

Brian Atlasleaking it leaking the private calls recording it pre all premeditated in my view I think what you did is worse than what he

Daisy Chendid okay um can I say something I have one question for you first though can I say something I like will you buy me a $30,000 purse that's my final question to you da

Daisy Chenwould I buy you yes I got to be wind to die if I love you oh okay all right good deal okay well go ahead go ahead with your point sir uh my point is if I didn't Le the message he would

Daisy Chenhave never take any punishment from this situation and I would be only the only one who gets punished so punish what do you mean like punished by making me into

Daisy Chenthe situation that I will be the only one that's suffering from this the whole process that getting pregnant be a single mother without the without the father without well you would have opted for the

Brian Atlasabortion even if you hadn't gone public right sorry like you would have even if you let's say you didn't go public you kept everything private I mean you would have still gotone the abortion you would

Daisy Chenhave kept it I just didn't know my decision weren but when I called him I was sure I wanted the baby when I just find out I'm pregnant I was really

Daisy Chensurprised and it was really happy um yeah so my my point is if I died he died with me wait what do you

Daisy Chenmean like the it's leaking the message it's going to make my situation bad okay then let it be cuz then he needs to get his punishment

Brian Atlasanyway that's how I F but okay so I'm I'm still a little confused you know so he broke up with you yeah you're upset you're upset by that but it doesn't sound like I mean you're

Daisy Chennot um you can say it's fine I'm not perfect I never said that no but I mean like you don't you don't take issue with him breaking up with you

Daisy Chencorrect yes like that's not the the issue really it's not the issue why I leak the message that wouldn't be I would I would never leak the message

Brian Atlasokay yeah well in any case um I don't know I'm old school I never that's okay I mean that's okay a lot of people don't understand why I did that like I was I'm

Daisy Chenalso like it is what it is I did it already and I'm taking the punishment and I'm getting harassment I lost what is it like but when you there's a quote

Brian Atlasor a saying it goes something like if you seek revenge dig two graves yeah cuz I mean look you got I guess you kind of got revenge on him although actually I

Brian Atlashave I have a thought on this um seems like a lot of negative attention came your way too I mean you probably got nasty messages uh you you know probably I assume it's been super stressful more stressful than it would have been had

Andrew Wilsonyou not leaked it but I actually think the other thing is and hang on just to cut in almost done Noel finish this for me revenge is mind so

Noelsath honestly I can't I'm not I don't memorize I don't memorize every single verse I'm not

Brian Atlasperfect so vengance is mine so saith the Lord I right yeah all right but so if your mission was to get

Brian Atlasrevenge on him um now that it's clear like perhaps if you had continued with the pregnancy that would have been a

Brian Atlasstronger position but no that's not so that's just entertaining people by but you actually realize that that this whole thing was probably the

Brian Atlasmost viral that like they've got so much attention from this that it's actually probably to some degree actually been very beneficial for their business

Brian Atlaspeople have been you know tuning in Contin to like attention when it was going on yeah but like did you like benefit from the attention at all no not at all not at all I mean I look

Brian Atlaseverybody else did at least at least for me I'll know how they view it I don't I actually me personally even if you know getting negative like being involved in some drama gets me more viewers I

Brian Atlasactually dislike that like I'd rather not get like uh like negative attention and if that means I don't get as many viewers from it fine because I personally don't like beefs and like

Brian Atlasdrama and stuff me either but so I don't know for them if they feel the same I don't know for them though if they feel the same way with negative attention some people like negative attention because it comes with there will be people who oh I've never heard of this

Brian Atlaspodcast okay I'm going to go subscribe and now they're new they've got new fans this has definitely like been a huge windfall for them in terms of audience

Brian Atlasattention Etc so you've almost done them this sort of like perhaps uh in accidental additional benef they not going to be successful

Daisy Chenyou know why because they're only going to be attract people that's who similar Behavior as them but like you almost like those people are not going to be successful because well I think they're they're doing pretty well aren't they I

Brian Atlasdon't I don't know all the details but you get but like okay if their goal is like we want as much attention on our podcast as possible cuz the whole Nar

Brian Atlasof like hey fresh he's this uh you know uh that whole narrative is gone now that you got the abortion like the whole thing of like it being an own like he's going to be on the hook for child support you're going to like take him

Brian Atlasyou know take him the task and the family court system that's gone you got the abortion so he got all the they got all that attention so I mean just from the argument of like you're trying to take

Brian Atlasthem down get revenge this has brought so much attention to them whilst a lot of it Nega it's also been beneficial in the in the sense of you just boosted their viewer

Brian Atlaslike their viewer count way up there how did I know I didn't know that I mean all this [ __ ] went super viral so anyways um I do need a $30,000

Andrew Wilsonperson, very briefly very briefly follow on that I just was wondering what does Buddhism say about

Daisy Chenrevenge it's not good now no it's not good is it does it say that you should avoid Revenge at all costs I wish I I wish I could but I couldn't it was too

Daisy Chenmuch for me like I as I as I said I've never done anything like that it just it was just out of my league like I couldn't control my behavior and but adhering to Buddhism you would have to

Noelsay that Buddhism especially is against revenge of all forms isn't it yes yeah okay what about fresh do you have any critiques for his

Andrew Wilsonbehavior let us assume for a second that um I've called this man directly and given him my critiques of his behavior uh but regardless of that why would that

Andrew Wilsonsomehow mean that I couldn't have any critiques of your guyses well we can accept critiques but what about fresh sure what about him why would you make a what aboutism right now

Andrew Wilsonwe're just talking specifically about your purview how you are viewing the situation and why you view it that way now we ask always easy it's always easy to make an hang on hang on I'm almost

Andrew Wilsondone I'm almost done I'll turn the floor over it's always easy to make an officiation and say what about this person what about that person what about this person but that's really kind of a deflection right now we're just talking

Andrew Wilsonabout everything from your perspective and I'm not being I don't think I've been overly critical here at all I've just asked you some very very basic questions about your worldview is that not true no that's true but we we would

Noelalso like to hear about on Fresh like is anybody going to address I got something I got something by the way I don't got be I I really don't I at least from my thing don't

Brian Atlashave beef with these guys uh my critique would be you probably shouldn't be blasting girls if they're not on birth control I

Brian Atlasagree that's they are I mean it feels good but you probably shouldn't be doing it exactly especially if you don't like I know you're just trying to be nice Walter there's plenty of girl Walter

Andrew Wilsonthere's plenty of girls in Miami on birth control buddy like he's stupid for that I'm sorry but he is like be just hang on he's a Gambling Man Walter's a Gambling Man hang on hang on

Andrew Wilsonhang on hang on can we internalize that critique though Noel yes be more responsible on who's in just his or also on who else that I could be more responsible on my end I have no problem

Andrew Wilsonadmitting that yeah so I mean this is my saying saying that it's irresponsible for fresh to come and you fine but you also unfortunately you are guilty of the

Andrew Wilsonsame criticism right which is that you are the receiver and allow yourself to receive a man's seed you're just as responsible is a man for giving it to you so I don't understand the criticism

Noelexactly well it's not exactly in a woman's control for a dude to blast in them and I think we all is it within a woman's control to let him stick his penis in her without a condom on yes

Andrew Wilsonthat and what would the general resulting thing of that be if a man is having sex with a woman with no condom on generally this would result in what if I got pregnant I would have kept it okay that yeah sure but what would that

Andrew Wilsonresult in though if you allow a man to have sex with you without a condom on you're not on any birth control what does that usually result in it can result in pregnancy and I know that yeah

Andrew Wilsonit would yeah sure so you are just as responsible as the person who you're criticizing for the action it's it's seems to me that this is a kind of a deflection right that you're deflecting

Kelly/Destiny/Ateri/Maddie (mixed)away from your own personal responsibility in this I'm not deflecting I could admit that I could have been more responsible were you okay with if you got pregnant were you okay with having his kid or would you have not I would have had his kid and if you

Noelwant so you're okay with just having a baby daddy no but if I had been irresponsible enough to get pregnant then I would have taken responsibility for that but it would have been as much your

Andrew Wilsonirresponsibility as it would have been his the thing is yeah and if if you can admit that then I'll give the criticism both ways tell this guy should wrap it up but also tell you that you should close your legs

Noelright like these are fair criticisms both ways aren't they they are but also it was discussed beforehand that he should not be doing that and I told him that's something I don't want him doing

Andrew Wilsonbut you let him do it anyway I didn't let him bled did absent him forcing you to which is not a claim you've made and fact you have made sure not to make that

Noelclaim because he didn't he didn't force me down and pin me down he just did it without like it was but you knew his dick was going inside of you with did you okay so did you tell him at any time

Andrew Wilsonno you need to go put a condom on before we continue or not no I took a Plan B then no if the answer is no then then what are you talking about here you consented to all of that not to him

Andrew Wilsonblasting in wait did but did you well but hang on that's an even if he didn't you still havee come and everything else that you potentially have to deal with even if uh he didn't you're no fool I

Andrew Wilsoncan tell you're no fool you know that the precondition of accepting a man's penis inside of you who does not have a condom on could inevitably lead to pregnancy there's no way around that

Noelright if he's not ejaculating into you the chances of you getting pregnant are significantly low lower than but they're still there it's still there if you're listening but it's still there either way so I mean you not telling him to go

Andrew Wilsonhey I'm not going to accept you without a condom on that's as much on you as it is on him sure I don't know how you get around that he still shouldn't have just blasted me without telling me wa and you shouldn't have allowed him to enter you

Brian Atlaswith no condom on right I agree with that but wait one question on the whole blasting inside thing was there any

Brian Atlasconversation about that like did you uh uh what's the term did you say like but I want you to pull out or uh he I literally did not know he was

Andrew Wilsongoing to do it he did it and then I was like both times he didn't know both times like he'd already done it once and then you did it a second time how do you reconcile the fact that you allowed him to do it a second time knowing he had

Noeldone it the first time it was the first time that he did it the first time we had sex that's when he did it no you said he did it twice earlier you said it was two times I said we had sex blasted in her twice so the second time he he

Noelwrapped it up or wait Andrew can you Cent her up a little bit yeah the second time did he wrap it up no but he pulled out so he still had sex okay but hang on yes so so it stands to reason if the

Andrew Wilsonfirst time he blasts inside you and you let him enter you again unprotected that you would have the expectation that he may not pull out right that seems reasonable doesn't it well I think my reaction was enough for him to not do it

Andrew Wilsonthe second time okay maybe but if you let him enter you again without a condom on a second time you're still running

Brian Atlasthe same exact risk aren't you yes yeah H okay all right all right um good times good times uh I'm trying to

Brian Atlasthink uh but there was no conversation like like even before the first time you weren't like hey I'm cool with not using a condom but maybe you could pull out was there anything like that or I think

Brian Atlasyou said it was In the Heat of the Moment it was In the Heat of the Moment Bam Bam Bam pick you up from the airport get to his house 10 10 minutes go by boom right at

Noelit uh there wasn't anything like what how did the condom conversation go was it like was there a conversation there prior to me going out there which I've said this before I told him I'm not on

Noelbirth control mhm I don't want children out of wedlock and I expect you to use protection and he knew this and then In the Heat of the Moment things happen we're both human it just [ __ ] happens sometimes you know so there was no

Brian Atlasactual in like in the moment there wasn't actually like a for either from you like oh do you have a condom there was never any actual in the moment like any conversation on his part your part

Noelabout at that point I knew and I accepted you know this could end in pregnancy and that is why I took a Plan B afterwards cuz I don't want children out of

Noelwedlock is Plan B in your worldview is Plan B in your worldview in abortion it's contraceptive just like how a condom prevents sperm from getting to the egg so does Plan B okay so that that

Andrew Wilsonwouldn't you wouldn't consider that to be any type of abortion it prevents conception okay the abortion pill however yes that is abortion okay I I don't know if this is like

Brian AtlasTMI can I ask like what like what position were you in when he blasted cuz if you were on top it's like it's a little harder to pull out just I don't know I'm just throwing it I was on

Noelmy back missionary missionary so it's not like I could just fresh you're a missionary I couldn't just shove him off of me and I'm not going to because I was attracted to him you know okay like I don't know what else to say I he was Charming you know I liked him I was

Andrew Wilsonattracted he made it seem like he wanted something fair enough so just I have a couple notes for you then I'm G to pass it on over to Andrew and then hopefully soon we'll get the whole panel in I'll be very brief I promise and I I won't

NoelI'm not going to be mean I just I I do have a few questions Andrew's a sweetheart I don't think he's mean good questions that make people think and look I have no problem taking accountability I'm very aware of my own

Brian Atlasmistakes yeah okay sure sure uh so one minute Mark we already went over this you said that you followed the fresh and fit podcast a whole bunch um at 3:30 in the video that we

Brian Atlasare the victims are we the victims video you said coercion is illegal and we already had a conversation about

Brian Atlascoercion 350 you say forced her to get abortion um I don't know I think I asked Daisy her view on that but so do you

Noelview that Walter forced her to get an abortion myON did wait wait hold on myON forced you yeah myON fresh and fit myin fresh and fit forced you I I'll answer

Noelthis I'll answer this I don't think she was physically forced but coercion is an actual thing that's why they have laws

Brian Atlason it so what specifically did um myin or uh Walter do which which is coercion so saying that you don't want to have a kid and that you don't have money for it and

Noelthen intimidating her online embarrassing her accusing her of being an escort that's all coercion you're intentionally trying to so are you saying totality of the circumstances

Andrew Wilsonbecause I would like to look at actually I just grant this as being true um let's just grant for a second that that's true you would have to give the same criticism the other way for coercion

Andrew Wilsonthat she was trying to coer him to give her something that he did not want to give her by this she provided the texts and the receipts where he was pretty much okay with her having a kid that they were planning

Andrew Wilsonyeah right but I guess the point is is that if it is coercion if it is to say that due to the actions of objecting to the various things that people do if the

Andrew Wilsonother direction is vengeance is being sought isn't that also in and of itself a form of coercion saying do this or else when it's not pertaining to

Noelabortion yes that is a form of coercion aside from the specific Act of an abortion yeah so I would say that wasn't there coercion both ways then sure both ways by your logic both ways but it

Andrew Wilsondoesn't take away from the fact that it's not okay for men to try and tell women whether they can have a child or not I mean I think in your worldview it is I think in your worldview it is okay to even tell people that they can't

Andrew Wilsoncheat or mental throw them in jail right let alone have an abortion don't you think within your world world view is perfectly acceptable in fact for men to tell women whether or not they should should be able to have an abortion no I don't agree with that wait Andrew do you

Brian Atlasmean within her worldview men would men saying you are not allowed to yeah men saying you shouldn't get an abortion how do those two correlate well you're a Christi well

Andrew WilsonI'm just saying that you seem to adhere to kind of the the idea that men can pass laws on behalf of what is moral or immoral the question here becomes if

Andrew Wilsonthis is really coercion if the case here is this was coercive um and you admit that then it it had to have been coercive both ways

Noelhow the hell do we determine who's right here in the case of Daisy's situation or yeah if it's coercive both ways if it's Vengeance for the sake of do this or

Andrew Wilsonelse how is that not coercion I don't I don't understand that we don't know that let let judge decide right I don't think yeah I know but I'm but I'm asking her directly cuz I want to hear her opinion

NoelI don't think anyone is right in this situation I think he is very wrong to have deceived her and like sell her the dream and I don't think she necessarily should have taken this online do you

Andrew Wilsonthink she wrong first or filing a well is it is it a is coercion a first come first serve

Andrew WilsonDaisy is it a who got to the coercion first is the one who's actually wrong or is it that two rights don't make a wrong that even if somebody did coers you it's

Noelnot okay to coers them back right he was coerced mentally she was coerced to do something physical that has a detriment on her body well well but hang on uh

Andrew Wilsoncouldn't coer in the opposite way reputational slander things like this lead to men doing self harm the same exact way that Daisy claims self harm was done to

Andrew Wilsonher um I don't really think that what was he self hared into well the the thing is is that um if you are coercing a person and it affects their mental

Andrew Wilsonillness on the other side couldn't they easily commit the same type of self harm that you're objecting to that you're claiming here uh Daisy was subjected to wouldn't that be the same exact

Andrew Wilsonentailment of that that the coercion led to her doing self harm why would the coercion the other direction not lead to self harm as well no they didn't I mean yeah I mean it didn't but it could have

Andrew Wilsonright the fact is it didn't if you say that he could also have thought her pregnant it could have right but it could so the thing is it's like in your

Andrew Wilsoncase hang on in your in your case it also didn't have to you just did it but it didn't have to so if the coercion goes the other direction then it also

Andrew Wilsondidn't have to lead to self harm but could have he have to not both of us he right it's an Indi of both of you right

Daisy Chenbut he did did he did he put her in a risk that he he she could be pregnant yes did he make me pregnant wait did she put herself also Daisy at risk of becoming pregnant no she didn't because

Daisy Chenshe didn't put herself at risk of becoming pregnant I I did I did she didn't ask him to come num not inside her that's my my point yeah but but

Andrew WilsonDaisy how to don't does a does a man put does a man put his penis inside of a vagina for babies to get made

Andrew WilsonDaisy but man is that how babies is that bab taking control the men take in control no I think that women have an equal amount of control for whether or not they open their leg talking about

Andrew Wilsonwomen have Equity wait say that again I'm sorry so now you're talking about women have Equity no you never agree with women if women have equal responsibility for the

Daisy Chenaction of sex we don't men are the leader yeah we don't men are the leader right aren't we so so so wait a second I just want to make sure I got this right

Andrew Wilsonwe can't take take in control so men LED you to having sex with them unprotected and it's their fault you have no

Daisy Chenresponsibility at all is that right I don't have responsibility if I wanted the baby like

Andrew WilsonI would take the consequence oh responsib I understand so that's true men are leaders so let me ask you this should men be able to tell you that you

Andrew Wilsoncan't have an abortion no oh well I thought I thought they were the leaders 5 seconds ago cuz you said men are the leader you you that's what you guys are saying those were your words men are the

Andrew Wilsonleaders and so therefore because they're the leaders we have no we have no way to to take responsibility for sex I just asked you if M should be able to tell you if you can have abortion you say

Daisy Chenno yes men shouldn't be able to but he did it anyway men shouldn't be able to do what he shouldn't be able to tell me to get an abortion but he did it yeah but can

Andrew Wilsonhe tell you not to have an abortion should he be able to tell you that that you're not allowed to no he shouldn't no he shouldn't be allowed to do that so then men are not

Andrew Wilsonthe leaders by your own word world view because you're saying that women have autonomy over pregnancy therefore they have autonomy and The Gatekeepers of sex and that's that

Daisy ChenDaisy I think you just don't understand that women cannot control when the man decided to come inside her we cannot control that can she control her legs opening and closing Daisy that's

Daisy Chendifferent thing coming inside of a woman and open the leg there are different things well I think you're just playing the wars because we understand but I mean you're F you were fine with it right like him I was fine because I

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