Should She Be DEPORTED?! Girl WALKS OFF Show?! 30% Of Men Have YACHTS?! DELULU! | Dating Talk #270

Date: 2025-11-24

Duration: 6h 16m

Guests

Brian Atlas

AAnna (Colombia)>

LLauren (UCSB Sociology)>

MMaddie (MAGA Grandma)>

NNatalie (Massachusetts)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Maddie (MAGA Grandma)(guest)

SPEAKER_05Anna (Colombia)(guest)

SPEAKER_06Felicity(guest)

SPEAKER_07Avery (Trans)(guest)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_11Lauren (UCSB)(guest)

SPEAKER_13Oliwka(guest)

SPEAKER_14Natalie (MA)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests introduced. Maddie is 57yo MAGA grandma.

Key MomentAvery reveals trans status, does NOT identify as real woman

ControversyLauren shares SA experience on Tinder date, walks off show

QuoteMaddie discloses childhood sexual trauma to provide perspective on rape debate

ControversyAnna would side with Colombia over USA. Brian: shouldn't have citizenship.

QuoteOliwka: 30% of men have yachts

Key MomentExtended circumcision debate: Avery calls it mutilation

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

7 guests + Felicity. Maddie is 57yo MAGA grandma.

Avery Trans Identity

Avery reveals trans status, does not identify as real woman. Anti-trans ideology.

Lauren's SA Story + Walkoff

Lauren shares Tinder assault experience, leaves show ~56 min.

Anna Colombia Allegiance

Anna would side with Colombia over USA. Major citizenship debate.

Oliwka 30% Yachts

Oliwka guesses 30% of men have yachts.

Circumcision Debate

Avery calls it mutilation. Brian opposes. Extended debate.

Crash Out Kylie Update

Brian shows Kylie's TikToks and reads legal response email.

Pasty George Farewell

Top donor announces stepping back for health issue.

Transcript

Page 1 of 7

Brian AtlasWelcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape. I'm your host Brian Atlas. A few quick announcements. This podcast is viewer supported. We rarely do sponsorships and

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Brian AtlasWithout further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves. Please tell us your name, age, occupation, where you're from, and education. Go ahead. Hello, I'm Anna. I'm 29. I'm from

Anna (Colombia)Colombia. I live in Orange County and I'm a tattoo artist. All right. How long have you been living in the United States? Uh since 2015. 2015. Okay, so you've been here for 10 years.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Got you. Why did you move? What what made you want to move? Um I wanted to have a better future. Okay, and you said you Sorry, Colombia you said? >> Colombia, yeah.

Brian AtlasUh what part of Colombia? Medellin? Bogota. Bogota. Okay, rock and roll. And have you been doing How long have you been doing tattooing for? Five years.

Anna (Colombia)Five years. So did the tattoos you had, have you had them prior to then? Uh no, I started five years ago when I decided to tattoo. Before that I was in college. Did you

Anna (Colombia)So wait, when did you first start getting tattoos? Five years ago. So you had no tattoos five years ago. >> Oh, no. I started like getting like fully blasted five years ago when I decided to

Brian Atlas>> Blasted? Yeah, when I decided to to be a tattoo artist. >> Okay. Got you. And let's see. Any college or anything like that? Yeah, I have an associate's

Anna (Colombia)human services on arts and science and I did half of nursing school. Is that here in >> Here. Yeah. I used to live in Virginia.

Lauren (UCSB)Okay. Anything from Colombia? Like college in Colombia? Just high school. Okay. Got you. What about you? Uh my name's Lauren. I'm 22 years old. I'm from San Diego and I'm a full-time

Brian Atlasstudent. All right. And what are you studying? I'm studying sociology and I'm minoring in applied psychology. Sociology and you said applied psychology. >> Yeah.

Lauren (UCSB)What's applied psychology? Uh it's like applied like research methods in psychology. So it's like psychology but like um in real life I guess. Like actively. Yeah. Got you. And are you

Brian Atlasyou're a senior? Yeah. Okay, so you're graduating next year. At like in 20

Brian Atlas26 or 27? 26. 26. >> 26. Okay. But you Are you doing fall or Uh no, no. In the spring I'm supposed to graduate. >> Okay. Got you. And are you in a sorority or anything like that?

Brian Atlas>> Okay. Got you. Uh so sociology and applied psychology, but your major you said your major psychology, minor Major Major sociology. >> Major sociology, minor applied psychology.

Lauren (UCSB)>> Yeah. Okay. Are you currently taking any sociology classes? Um not currently, but yeah, I just have a couple more to go before I end up graduating, which is cool. So. >> What do you want to do with after you

Lauren (UCSB)graduate for work? Um I'm thinking of going to criminology or doing something like that. Criminal profiling, but I'm not not sure yet. Taking it day by day. Okay. So maybe like

Lauren (UCSB)something in law enforcement or Sort of not really law enforcement. Just detective work I guess. I don't know. Things like that. >> Okay. Got you. And you are majoring in

Brian Atlassociology. So my question is, can you tell us like maybe I mean we'll just do one like the number one thing you've taken away from your education so far?

Lauren (UCSB)In terms of what you've been taught. Um I think it's just how I mean it's obvious how diverse each person is and each community, but it's just crazy

Lauren (UCSB)to me I guess how each culture is um you know, so distinct and within the different like states and countries and everything and I just think it's really interesting how like that all interconnects and everything and how it

Lauren (UCSB)overlaps just to I don't know create like a new like space and everything. Are you talking about like the United States or >> Like in country in general like countries all around the world and

Brian Atlascontinents. Okay. And so sociology, that's it there's a heavy focus on like different cultures and

Brian Atlasbut was Is there one like sociological principle that you could like relate to us I guess that you learned or Um Trying to think. It's like on the spot. Let me get back to you on that one.

Brian AtlasNothing? Aren't you Isn't this your major? >> I know. No, I know. I know. I know. I know. Uh okay. Yeah. Let me sit on that real quick. Can I ask you a question? I I'm I was talking to somebody the other day.

Brian AtlasI I won't say who they are, but they're they're professor not at your university but at a at a major well respected university. And the the use of

Brian Atlasartificial intelligence is quite rampant. Uh when I assume you have to write essays for your Yeah, a lot of essays. Do you Is it the case for you or perhaps also the case

Lauren (UCSB)for other students that uh there's rampant usage of AI? Yeah. I think it's yeah, hugely I guess debated, but

Lauren (UCSB)a lot of my professors that I've had are largely against that of course for like a number of reasons. And I think also specifically like art AI and art is like a huge issue right now that we're dealing with.

Lauren (UCSB)Um Just the fact that artists can't create their own work and everything is like based around technology now and it's not even a real human. It's just really crazy to me. And yeah, I think it's definitely an

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)issue that needs to be addressed and yeah. Mm. Okay. What about you? Hi, I am Maddie. I am 57 years old. I am

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)originally from California for 56 years. I've now been in North Carolina for six months. I am an aesthetician specializing in Brazilian waxing. [Music]

Brian AtlasOh wow. Okay. And I'm recently I'm a creator on X. How many Brazilian waxes have you given in your >> Thousands. >> Thousands? Tens of thousands? >> Not tens of thousands, but definitely

Brian Atlasthousands. >> Wow, you're a trooper. I Big Labia Matter. >> Yeah, Big Big Labia Matter. You know what? Wait, I You could provide some like data statistics here. >> Absolutely. Ask away. So you're looking

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)right down Main Street. >> Uh right in there. Yes, sir. What's the What's the percentage breakdown? You know what? Honestly, everyone is just different. Yeah, but you know

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)there's innies and outies and >> I would say that I see more innies? Various like larger sizes than smaller sizes

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)>> on the outie side. Yes, sir. Okay, there you go. >> I do. And there And I try to encourage women like cuz everybody thinks they look weird down there. Like everybody. >> Yeah. I don't care who you are. Huh. And

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)so I always try to tell them, "No, you're just fine. Nobody I've never looked at anybody and gasped like something was really weird." So I see. I cuz I only date women with big labia. outies. So

Brian AtlasI feel like some You know, I've had some good luck, but I've feel like I've had some bad luck, you know? Like you say it's more more than 50% I feel like I'm bad and my batting average is terrible there.

Brian AtlasMaybe it's just my clientele. I don't know where Maybe it's like Maybe it's like a geographic region in the US where they all coalesce. Um All right. Uh like the

Brian Atlaspoles or something. I don't know. And you So, you currently live where again? In Charlotte, North Carolina. >> Charlotte, North Carolina. Rock and roll. Is that the South? It is considered the South. >> the South? Okay.

Natalie (MA)>> Yes, it is. All right. Good times. Uh what about you? My name is Natalie. I flew here from Massachusetts. Um I'm 41 years old. I'm a patient care

Natalie (MA)rep at a cancer center and I have some college. All right. What were you studying in college? >> Uh general studies or psychology, I think actually. It was

Oliwkaover 20 years ago. Okay. All right. What about you? Uh my name is Oliwka. I'm 22 years old. I do social media. Uh I am in school, but I have switched to

Oliwkapart-time since I'm doing mostly social media now. Um I'm studying psych uh and like a little bit of biology. I kind of took up some courses for fun. Mhm. Um yeah. Uh and what about

Oliwkauh Explain the Burger King thing. >> King thing. Okay, well, my Instagram is oliwkamasiuk o l i w k m a s i u k. Um

Oliwkahonestly, one day I got a Whopper and I was racing my car for fun and I made a video and uh with the crown on uh and I said that it makes the Subaru less gay.

OliwkaThat blew up pretty quickly. Um and now I wear my Burger King crown. Honestly, I've always liked the Burger King crown and I've always liked Whoppers, so yeah. Wait, what did your Why did Hold on. It's a really like It's like It's

Brian Atlassome of the craziest story ever, honestly. But I'm just curious. I asked about the Burger King hat Yeah. and then you like said your your Instagram handle and then spelled it out.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. And that had absolutely zero to do with the story that you just gave us. >> Because you have to like see it to understand it, honestly. Like I don't know how to explain the Burger King crown.

Brian AtlasWell, then but I saw it and then I messaged you. There was this famous incident on an airplane >> Yeah. where there's this guy who's getting kicked off of an airplane wearing the same Burger King hat and I

Oliwkaasked you if it was related. Yeah. Were you aware of that clip? Um I always knew about that clip, yeah. I mean, it's been around for a long time. Okay. That's why I laughed at it. I saw it.

Avery (Trans)>> pretty funny clip. Um so anyways, uh okay, what about you? My name is Avery. I'm 29. I'm from Bay Area, California. Ceres to be specific. And I am in the process of going through

Brian Atlasbeauty school to be a nail technician. All right. And uh any college or anything? No, not right now. Okay. All right, Felicity. My name is

Brian AtlasFelicity. I'm 19 from Santa Barbara and I'm Brian's bodyguard. It's true. She is. Actually, uh we were She and she's actually protected me from

Brian Atlasvarious wild animals. Oh. We were We were hiking the other day. Camping, rather. Well, both, I suppose. And this [ __ ] bear came.

Brian AtlasYeah. And Felicity got all big and [ __ ] and scared the bear away. It was dope. >> Yeah, Brian doesn't know how to do that. Not bad. I don't. She's right. So, anyways, uh she is She is uh my bodyguard. So, if

Brian Atlasany you guys try to get rowdy tonight, she'll All right. So, getting into Oh, going around the table. What's everybody's current relationship status? If you're single, how long have you been single?

Anna (Colombia)And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in? Um I've been single for 5 months now. Um my longest relationship

Brian Atlasuh it was 10 years. Longest relationship 10 years. Okay. And is that the one that ended 5 months ago?

Anna (Colombia)Uh no. 10 years, then 2 years, and then 2 years. Okay. 10 2 2. So, the last one was 2 years. >> Yeah. Okay. Have you had a rebound since the last one?

Brian AtlasNo rebound? Nothing? Okay. So, uh the 10-year one, were you married? Yep. Okay. That's your only time you were married, though. Uh I've been married twice. Married twice. Okay. And

Brian Atlasum have you uh You have kids? Yeah, I have two. Two kids from the same father? No, from different fathers.

Anna (Colombia)Different fathers. Okay. Uh Are they from the 10 2 2? No, from the 2 2. The 2 2? Yeah. The 2 2, but not the 10. Okay.

Anna (Colombia)>> No, we were high school sweethearts, but then we just like you know, chose different paths. So, it was like mutual. Okay. So, the the 10-year one, this was in Colombia. Uh we met in Colombia and

Anna (Colombia)then we decided to come here as well. Okay. You both moved here. Yeah, well his family was already living here and then he was living at that time in Virginia

Anna (Colombia)and I went to study English in Boston. So, we kind of like um met in the US. >> But you were both in Colombia. Born in Colombia. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh did you guys immigrate here legally

Brian Atlasor illegally? Legally. Legally. Okay. You went through the proper process and uh So, the 10-year relationship was your first marriage.

Brian AtlasYep. Okay. Uh who initiated the divorce? Uh it was mutual, actually. Yeah. >> Okay. But Was there a specific reason

Anna (Colombia)for you to break up or >> I I finished college, then I wanted to travel. I wanted to be a tattoo artist and guest spot. He didn't want that, so

Anna (Colombia)you know, it was different. I also wanted to have kids. He didn't want to have kids, so Okay. And uh Are you Christian? Were you Christian? I'm Catholic. >> You're You're Catholic. Okay.

Brian AtlasHold on. But my understanding, at least as it relates to Catholicism, uh divorce is very much frowned upon in Catholicism. Um and it doesn't sound like from what

Brian Atlasyou described that there was I understand I believe, as it relates to Catholicism, there are some some scenarios in which you can get a

Brian Atlasdivorce, but it sounds like you've wanted to travel and be a tattoo artist. Yeah. I don't know if within the Catholic faith that that's enough

Anna (Colombia)pretext or reason to get a divorce. Well, I mean I couldn't give you like the whole details. It was just like something mutual with my ex-partner. I don't think

Anna (Colombia)it will have to like fully be related to Catholicism. Well, I mean marriage is uh Did you get married in a Catholic

Brian Atlaschurch? No. Were you married in a church? No. But you were married. Yeah. So, you just went to the courthouse? Yeah. There was no ceremony. No.

Brian AtlasOkay. That's interesting. Okay. Uh was he Catholic or Um I don't You The guy you were dating for 10 years, you don't I don't remember, actually. Uh okay. And

Brian Atlasuh So, okay, you divorce him, then the the second 2-year relationship, were you married to him? Yes. Okay. And you had a kid with him. Yeah. Okay.

Brian AtlasWho initiated the divorce? Me. Okay. Why? Didn't work out. Didn't work out. Okay. Um Going back to the first guy really quick, did he

Brian Atlasuh the the 10-year relationship, did he pay you alimony? Nope. No alimony? Nothing. Okay. Uh the second year or the second

Brian Atlaspartner >> marriage, did he pay you alimony? Nope. Does he pay you child support? Nope. Uh custody, is it 50/50? Um Yeah.

Brian AtlasOkay. Uh so, he lives near you, I guess. Uh he lives in Florida. Don't Wait. And you live in California, right? >> Yeah. But you So,

Brian Atlas50/50 custody? Um no, I have full custody and we just like he visits her, so >> Okay. I see. But he doesn't pay you child support. Nope. Okay. Uh and then the second 2-year

Brian Atlasrelationship, you have a kid with him, also. Yeah. Okay. And who broke up with who? Didn't work out. Didn't work out. Okay.

Brian AtlasUh does he pay you child support? Uh no. Shared custody? Yeah. So he he lives nearby or whatever. >> Yeah. Okay.

Brian AtlasUm when you say it didn't work out who who ended the relationship? Both of us. Both of you? Yeah. So you both approached each other at the

Brian Atlassame time and said I like the words left your mouth at the exact same moment we should break up. Yeah.

Anna (Colombia)Yeah, it was just like a long process of you know nothing's working out. Um Nothing's working out. >> the best decision so. I see. Okay. And um

Brian AtlasOkay. Well, none of none of your previous ex-husbands pay you alimony. None of them Well, none of your the father of your children pay you child support. Um Okay. Are you planning on having any more

Anna (Colombia)children? No. All done? All done. >> Marriage? More marriage More marriage? >> Um eventually if I find the right person and >> Find the right person. When my babies probably are older, yeah.

Brian AtlasWhen the babies are older, okay. All right. Uh what are the age of the kids? Uh 10 months and 3 years. 10 months, 3 years. Okay. All right. What about you?

Lauren (UCSB)Um so I've been single for the past like 2 or 3 years and the longest relationship I've been in was for 8 months um my senior year of high school. All right. Uh the the You said you've been single for 2 3

Lauren (UCSB)years. Uh the relationship that ended then, how long was that one? Uh 8 months. Oh, is that the >> Or wait, no. Sorry. I'm switching up. It was I believe like 4 months and we took

Lauren (UCSB)a break in between um but then yeah, he ended up breaking up with me. I see. >> second time so. >> So you've been single for 2 3 years. >> Yeah. Any guys in the picture whatsoever? >> Mm not really. Nothing like serious.

Lauren (UCSB)>> suppose I should ask. What's your orientation? Um I identify as straight but also like kind of questioning still. Okay. Have you fooled around with girls

Brian Atlasat all? Um I have, yeah. A little bit. >> Uh but of the two relationships you mentioned >> Men. Both men. >> Both both men. Okay. But no guys in the picture. Uh not really. No. >> Nothing Not even got your ta- like a

Lauren (UCSB)sneaky link? >> No, no. That kind of yeah. That was Yeah, that ended like a little bit ago. There was no sneaky link. >> a month ago? Yeah, like ish. Ish. Okay. And um Any girls in the picture?

Brian AtlasNot right now. No. Okay. Um Have you ever dated a girl like at all or? No, no. Nothing serious. Nothing serious. Okay. And um

Lauren (UCSB)Hm. Are you looking for anything currently? I am. I feel like I also shouldn't be but I kind of want a relationship so I'm kind of just like whatever comes to me, I guess. Whatever finds me. Isn't it

Lauren (UCSB)like cuffing season or whatever? >> Yeah, it is. It's getting It's getting hard to be lonely out here. It's getting hard but Okay. >> know. All right. Um

Lauren (UCSB)Have you ever had a roster? Like have you know like a lot of people local they'll they'll date multiple people. They'll date around, you know. Um not more than like three two or three people at a time really. I feel like I

Lauren (UCSB)like to like focus my energy on like one person cuz it just gets like confusing. Okay. doing too much like if it's more than Yeah. What about you? Um I've been married for almost 25

Brian Atlasyears. All right. Longest relationship? Is that Yes, that one. Yes. Well, how long were you guys together before you got married? About 2 years. So together for 27? Okay. Kids?

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)Uh yes, each independently. We have a very interesting family. How many uh kids? >> two daughters. My daughter Well, my biological daughter

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)is 28 and she I just became a grandmother. She just had my first grandson. And then I have another daughter which is his biological daughter and she's 30.

Brian AtlasGot it. Okay. And uh any other marriages? Nope. All right. >> me. Okay. For him though? Yes. How many? Two. Two others? So three total? Yes.

Brian AtlasAll right. Well, you've been together for a while so I assume it's hopefully >> locked in. It's done. Fingers crossed. Last one. Last one. Third Third time's the charm. >> What about you?

Natalie (MA)I am married to the love of my life. Hi babe. Um we have two children. We've been together We dated in our early 20s for a couple years and then we

Natalie (MA)broke up. And then we got back together when I was about 32 years old and we've been together ever since. He's my longest relationship. Okay. Um Sorry, how and how long? I might have

Natalie (MA)missed that. Um we've been together second time around about nine plus years. About nine. Second time around. How much total? Um 11 years total. Okay. And that Is this your longest relationship?

Brian Atlas>> it is. All right. And you said you had two kids >> I do. >> from him? Yes. Okay. Any other marriages? No. Got it. What about you? Oh. Um I've been single for almost a year now. My longest

Brian Atlasrelationship has been 4 years. I think almost 4 years. 4 years, okay. Uh you're 22 so that maybe started at the end of high school or? I think I was 18, yeah.

OliwkaOkay. Single for 1 year. So who broke up with who? The 4-year relationship? Mutual. It was a tough situation. How so? Um then I don't want to go too much into detail. Um

Oliwkasomeone in his family got sick. That definitely I would say affected him in a lot of ways. Um and yeah, honestly just we outgrew each other. Started young dating

Brian Atlasand uh different paths. All right. You've been single for a year. Any uh Any guys in the picture the past year?

Brian AtlasNo. Nothing? Nothing. Nothing? Nothing. Are you I think I recall something in your notes. You're dating to marry. Is that correct? Yeah, I date to marry. Okay. Um are you religious at all or?

OliwkaI'm Christian. Christian? What denomination? Um honestly, I don't really align with a lot of them. I just go by the Bible and go by uh praying to God every day. Um just

Avery (Trans)kind of like my own little way to be honest with you. Hm. Okay. And Uh okay. That's it for now. What about you? Um I am in a committed relationship with

Avery (Trans)the love of my life. I hope to marry him one day. Um we just celebrated 3 years this last July and he is my longest relationship. All right. Okay. Um

FelicityFelicity? Single like for a few months. Longest relationship was 2 years. Okay. Um single. All right. And >> single every time.

SPEAKER_00[Music] Adzills donated $200. E O'Brien >> Thank you, man. >> Your favorite British back. Hope you've been well, bro. Looking forward to seeing you in the MJ movie since you went to Neverland.

SPEAKER_00>> Oh, yeah. >> Lil B cameo going to be peaked. #freefelicity #michaeliskin Yeah, man. That's crazy. When that doc drops my podcast going to blow up. No, just

Brian Atlaskidding. I don't know. Yeah, man. Thank you. Anybody want This guy is a big fan of Michael Jackson. Does anybody Can I get a I love Michael Jackson. >> from anybody? How about you do that? >> You do that [ __ ] We want to hear it from you. >> I think we need to hear it from Lauren.

Brian AtlasShe seems like the most outgoing person at the table. Um >> And extroverted for sure. Yeah. Uh no. No? Not a huge Michael Jackson fan. >> Anybody? Come on. You're wearing a burger. Let's I've never done Michael Jackson impression right now. Let's hear

Oliwkait. >> Me? Yeah. Uh okay. I honestly am not a big Michael Jackson fan but like what what does it sound like? Like is it like Is it just like You got this. Tee-hee. I don't know. Yikes. Okay. This is

Brian AtlasShe tried. She tried her best, Adzills. >> it for him, okay? Uh you honestly, Adzills, you should pop a bottle of champagne for that that attempt. That was pretty good. Uh all right, cool. So that's everybody's relationship status.

Brian AtlasUm we're going to get into some of the pre-show notes that some of you guys had submitted to us. Um I feel like there's something I'm forgetting here that I had to do. But uh

Brian AtlasYeah, by the way, guys, uh we are one chair down. We had a couple flakes, no shows today so. >> Ooh. So yeah, you know, it's it's around the holiday time, Thanksgiving.

Brian AtlasPeople are a little little flaky around this time of year. Uh okay. So I want to start off with

Brian AtlasLet's see. Nope. Nope. Uh okay, Avery. Uh you um Let's see. You I'll just start with a fun one then

Brian Atlaswe'll get into some of the more interesting stuff. Sure. You said that one time you threw up on a Tinder date >> and then shortly later he accidentally peed on you. Yes. I I regretted saying this in the pre-show

Avery (Trans)questions the second I said it cuz I knew it was going to get brought up. Um sorry, babe. I know you're watching right now. You don't know this story. Um So this was a couple years ago. I was

Avery (Trans)living with a friend. Met a Tinder gate Tinder date. Didn't want to take him sorry. Didn't want to take him back to my house without realizing, you know, if he was sane or not. So we went to a bar.

Avery (Trans)Ended up taking it back to the house. I'm, you know, giving him head and he's a head pusher and so yeah, I had been drinking so I threw up. Word. Wait, on him?

Avery (Trans)>> On him. Yeah. So And mind you, we're in the backyard at this time. So, I'm thinking I like run around the corner in fear, pure fear, cuz this has never happened before. And I'm thinking like, okay, I'm going to come back around the corner, he's going to be cleaning himself off, ready

Avery (Trans)to go. No, I come back around the corner, he's cleaning himself off, ready to go, but he's still trying to keep himself going. And he's like, what are you doing? You're not done yet. And I was dumb,

Avery (Trans)drunk, and like 21, so I just kept going. And then, I think it was maybe 10 minutes later, he was like, oh, I'm going to come, I'm going to come, and then it wasn't [ __ ] it was pee. Yeah. Yeah, and I immediately got up, I

Avery (Trans)was like, what are you [ __ ] 12 years old? Like, what are you doing? He deserved the throw up. >> I never talked to him again. I I don't think I've ever kicked somebody out of my house that fast, and blocked somebody even faster. Yeah, it was really bad.

Brian AtlasAll right. Thank you for that riveting story. Um, you guys You said that you're very traditional in your values as a partner as well as your faith. It's very important to you in a

Brian Atlasrelationship. Yes. You're interested in debating on being trans and dating cuz you feel like there's a lot of stigmas and things trans people go through

Brian Atlaswith dating that isn't talked about. >> Yes. Okay. Uh, so you're trans, so you're uh, male to female. Correct. And okay. And um,

Avery (Trans)how long have you been transitioned or whatever? Um, so I started presenting female when I was about 20 21. Um, and then I didn't start hormones until I was 25 because I wanted to wait

Avery (Trans)for my body to fully develop so that I wouldn't have any adverse reactions in the future. Um, I also just want to preface by saying that like I'm very much a firm believer of biological reality and what

Brian Atlasmy biology is at the end of the day. And so, you know. Yeah, you write you're you're firm passionate about accepting biological reality. Um Like I don't believe I'm a woman. I

Brian Atlasknow I'm a man. You know. Hm, okay. Um, so you yeah, you write that you don't you don't buy into the idea of I'll just prompt you on that. You don't buy into the idea of that.

Brian Atlas>> that that I am a real woman, yes. Yeah. Right, you write true you don't buy into the idea that trans women are real women. >> Correct. Okay. Um Gotcha. But so, in terms of your like pronouns or whatever, do you >> care.

Avery (Trans)You don't okay. >> I don't care. Whatever you want to call me. If somebody calls you he, you're totally fine with that. >> Doesn't bother me. I know what I am when I go to bed. Prefer, like do you prefer she? Sure, but at the end of the day, it's it's never been something that's

Avery (Trans)bothered me that much. Um, and even now to this day, I like I really don't care. I really don't care what somebody wants to call me. Call me what you want, just don't call me late for dinner. All right. And do you date men or women?

Brian AtlasUh, men, but I do have an attraction to women, but I am very very very very picky. I see, okay. Um, so would you consider do you consider yourself gay like gay

Avery (Trans)then or I mean, yes, cuz I am a biological man. Um, so like my partner as well considers himself considers himself a gay man because he is with a biological man. Um, and I mean, I I don't know what I would

Avery (Trans)really consider myself. I wouldn't call myself straight, but I definitely wouldn't call myself you know, like just straight up gay either. So, you And you're uh, the person that you're seeing, are

Brian Atlasthey are they trans too or not? >> No, they're cis or whatever. He's a he's a he's a biological man as well. All right. Okay. And um

Brian AtlasI don't know, I don't really have a I don't have anything I don't really have anything there. Um It's uh, kind of different. >> What what do you think? I mean, you're trans, what do you think about some of the some of that stuff, I guess? I don't

Avery (Trans)know. Um, I think Um, I think the current trans community and LGBT BT community is very very

Avery (Trans)toxic. I believe they're very much in denial. Um, and I think that they're caring more about themselves and their comfortability and what they want for

Avery (Trans)the world to perceive them as than what society actually sees them as. Um I I I just It's the reality, you know, and and a lot of trans people don't like to acknowledge that and they like to pull

Avery (Trans)the I'm a real woman, you must look at me like this, you must look at me like that. I I I think most trans people um, are jokes, to be honest. But you're a trans person. Yeah, but I I

Avery (Trans)mean, I should say okay, so I should say I believe most people who have that sort of mindset when it comes to trans or LGBT ideology are jokes. Hm, okay. Any any one else on the panel want to weigh on

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)the weigh in on this topic or Well, I I wanted to say that when I walked up to the door she was sitting outside and I thought because I'm very conservative, I guess you you guys

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)titled me the MAGA grandma, which I love. I'll take that proudly. Um, and the moment that we started speaking this is a wonderful human being, and

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)all I care about is that you leave children alone. Yep. That's it. I don't care, you live your life the way you want to live it. Do not force it on children. That's my opinion. Agreed. Yeah. You know, I don't

Anna (Colombia)>> Any other panelists want to weigh in on any of this or W. I said what I said. W. I agree with her. Just like Oh, okay. >> unless you don't like or hurting others, just don't bring it up to children cuz

Lauren (UCSB)Just don't bring it up to children. I agree with her. Hm, okay. Yeah, I feel like it's not something I have like a huge place in saying considering I'm not like a trans individual. Um, but it's just I I just want to say I I think the whole notion

Avery (Trans)of like, oh, you're not directly affected by this, so you don't get to have an opinion is stupid. >> Thank you. >> You are allowed to have an opinion on whatever you want. You have free will, okay? I I'm nobody here at this table was affected by the Holocaust, but we

Avery (Trans)all have an opinion on it. So, you know, I just I want I want you to know that like whatever opinion you have, say it. Like, you don't feel like you need to hold back just because you don't live this path that I live. That's not Yeah,

Brian AtlasI understand that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, moving on to the next notes that we have here. Uh, Nat. Nat.

Brian AtlasUh, let's see. You you write This is very Oh, boy. Um Okay. Um Hold on. Uh

Brian AtlasLet's see. Hold on. Um You say Oh, boy. Okay. Modern day Uh

Brian AtlasUh, you say modern day women or feminists are an embarrassment to women in dating. True. Okay, do you want to elaborate on that a little bit?

Natalie (MA)Um, I don't agree with modern day feminism hating men. Men make the world go around, they do everything. Um

Natalie (MA)Yeah, I just I don't agree with women who hate men. I think men are great. Yeah. Okay.

Natalie (MA)And I love that question about What's the question about um, being in a forest seeing a men a man for the men >> men versus bear thing. >> who say they'd rather see a bear are delusional.

Brian AtlasAnd I'd rather see a man, and if I do see a bear I sure as hell hope I see a man to save me from the bear. Hm, okay. Um, Lauren, it looked I don't know, like

Lauren (UCSB)you had a bit of a reaction to what she said. Did you have thoughts on on any of that? >> Um, I think like as a sociology major, I guess I do have like yes, a more like left point of

Lauren (UCSB)view in everything, and from what I've learned um, and I think your comment I guess like on the man versus bear thing, I think like the the concept of that, it's not like it's like I mean, you understand like why it's even being said. So, it's not it's not like

Lauren (UCSB)>> I don't. >> It's about like how a man would like rape you versus a bear wouldn't. That's the that's the whole thing. Like the so, the sentiment of man versus bear. Do you think

Lauren (UCSB)a large majority of men would rape you? I think that's a very possible. I think that's >> I think that's outrageous. >> What percentage of men would you say? >> outrageous. I I don't I can't put an exact percentage on it, but it's

Lauren (UCSB)extremely I mean, it's well documented. There's so many cases that go, you know, unreported of men um, you know, raping women, and I don't That's just what it is. There's probably an equal amount of

Natalie (MA)women who falsely accuse men of rape, too. I I don't know what type of men these women on the show

Natalie (MA)interact with on a daily basis. I'm I've got a couple decades on you. I met so many men. I don't know any I've never met a man that was that would rape me or >> Well, that's your yeah, opinion. That's what you call

Lauren (UCSB)>> Have you interact Have Are you I've been assaulted, yes. I have. Oh, okay. Yeah. What do you think the percentage is? I mean, it's I think it's you know, like you said, yes, there are like women that

Lauren (UCSB)falsely accuse men, but you know, there's it can go both ways, and I do think it's significant more significant for men to end up, you know, taking advantage and assaulting women. I think

Brian Atlasthat is Okay, just one point of clarification on this because assault is sort of this umbrella term that can encompass anything from and it would still be a crime, but

Brian Atlasanything from like you know, and it's wrong, but a guy like grabbing your butt at the party, clearly wrong. But I think we would agree not as severe as like a woman who's like violently

Brian Atlasstranger raped in a parking lot, right? So, when you say assault, can you I guess specify what you're talking about? >> I mean it is kind of an umbrella term for, you know, unwanted touching and

Lauren (UCSB)getting assaulted either sexually or violently. Um or physically, but I mean I mean I just think it's any unwanted advances. I think that is what assault can mean and I don't think it has a specific definition for that. Like I

Lauren (UCSB)think it is like, you know, I mean people take it a little too far like, you know, sometimes like falsely accusing people of doing things and exaggerating the truth, but you know, I think it's just I'm kind of standing by that belief of like believing the victim first.

Avery (Trans)And like that's just kind of like what like >> with her. I don't. >> Yeah, very much disagree. I I just want to ask so so because I'm a biological male, do you think I'm capable of raping somebody? Do you think

Avery (Trans)I'm at risk of raping somebody just because I identify as a biological male or that I identify myself as biological male? Well, I think anyone could Okay. >> rape someone as well. >> so you think women also have the capability of rape? >> Oh, yeah, of course. I never said they didn't like >> how high it is? I don't know the exact

Avery (Trans)percentage off hand. >> high. I don't know the exact percentage off hand, too, but I do know it's very very high. It happens. >> Of course it happens. I'm sure it does happen, yeah. So it's not it's not something that's exclusive to men is the point I'm trying to make. And that's it kind of sounds like that's what you're trying to make it.

Brian Atlas>> to say it like that. I do think both sides um I appreciate the clarification. >> are, yeah, capable of rape, of course. I want to I guess with this following question, I do want to tread carefully and of course if you don't want to talk

Brian Atlasabout it, that's totally fine. Um perhaps just to give us context for cuz I think somebody asked the question like who here has had one of these negative experiences. You

Brian Atlashad indicated you had been assaulted. Totally understand if you do don't want to talk about it. Would you feel comfortable sharing some details or no? Um I mean this is it was uh someone I I met on Tinder this

Lauren (UCSB)my freshman year. I'm just going to be kind of vague, but um we essentially I was super drunk. I was the only one drinking. He was completely sober. He was 5 years older than me. And I ended up, you know, I was newly

Lauren (UCSB)freshly 18. And I hadn't had really any super close sexual relations since my um ex, which was the first person I was with and I think that

Lauren (UCSB)he did I don't know. I wouldn't want to label it as assault. See, this is where it is get a little bit murky, but it is like my story and how like I my perception of him kind of taking advantage of me and

Lauren (UCSB)trying not to use like I don't know. I don't want to get too into it, but I did feel like a little bit taken advantage of. I don't really feel like being detailed right now. Okay. >> Low-key it's kind of not.

Natalie (MA)>> Can I say something to that? Yeah. So it kind of goes to my point that maybe soliciting men on Tinder, maybe that's not the best group or caliber of men.

Natalie (MA)Maybe that's the problem. Like You know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? Like you're it's you're looking for randoms to hook up with. It's probably not the most Yes, I yeah. If if I can,

Brian Atlasso you you said you met him on Tinder? Uh yeah. And then this was like your first time hanging out? Yeah. Okay. And then like what what time did you go to meet him, I guess?

Brian Atlas>> It was late at night. I do I do know that what I was doing was probably not smart, but I was, you know, was it like a >> or Saturday night or something? You were >> Okay. Had you When you say you'd been drinking, had you been drinking with him or had

Brian Atlasyou already >> me alcohol. Had you already been drinking prior? I was drinking a little bit prior, but he was giving me alcohol. >> So maybe was it like a Friday or Saturday night where you were maybe like partying pre Were you out partying beforehand? Not like partying necessarily, no.

Brian AtlasBut you said you'd been drinking prior to meeting him. I mean, yeah, like a little bit. Okay. Cuz I mean I know a lot of people who, you know, here at UCSB it's a really big party school. People laugh you know,

Brian Atlaspre-games. People pre-game. People, you know, drink whatever. And But then you met up with him and then he

Brian Atlashad some You said he was totally sober? Okay. I mean, to your credit I think it's a little weird if you're drink drink to somebody and you're not also drinking that >> That is weird.

Brian Atlas>> That is kind of weird. That is kind of That's kind of a little sus. I'm not um but uh and in terms you said you felt like you were taken advantage of. So you guys did have sex.

Brian AtlasOkay. Um was it a one-time thing or did you continue No. You didn't continue seeing >> Yeah, I was a mess after. No. And when you like were you completely incapacitated? I would not call I don't

Brian Atlasnot completely, but like Well, how much had you been How much had you drank? Um five, six shots. Five, six shots, okay.

Brian AtlasI mean, that's that's a lot of with him. Okay, not like for the pre-game. Okay, that I mean, that's a lot of alcohol. I would be I'm a lightweight. I would be [ __ ] up. I don't even drink though. I don't really drink. Um okay.

Brian AtlasUh well, I'm sorry to hear you had that experience. Um You although you yourself seem to have indicated that you were a bit hesitant or on the fence

Brian Atlasas to exactly how to categorize what happened. You said that you do of course feel like you were taken advantage of. >> into more details. I just don't feel comfortable like in something like that. >> Yeah, of course you don't have to if you don't want to, but um

Brian AtlasUm okay. So I don't know. That was stemming from the man versus bear thing, I guess. I guess we can quickly just go into that just cuz it came up or whatever. I guess going around the table, so the question is

Brian Atlasum your I mean, there's a whole bunch of different ways to frame it. I guess

Brian AtlasYou are on a hike and um would you rather encounter a random man or a random bear? A random man.

Lauren (UCSB)I mean

Lauren (UCSB)I can go 50/50 with this depending on how I feel right now, but Well, it sounded like earlier you you were more so on the side of bear. Yeah, I guess I you know, like physically yes, like at the immediate presence of a bear

Brian Atlasright there, like that's obviously, you know, it's I would choose a man in this instance, yes. Okay, but it sounded like at least earlier you understand why women pick bear. >> I Yeah, that's what I was trying to say

Anna (Colombia)like man man man The man, of course. Okay, got you. Um Didn't ask her. Oh. >> I answered everybody.

SPEAKER_00>> She She's on the show all the time, so I just skip her, you know. But um we have a message coming in here. >> A message from the government of Canada.

SPEAKER_00Pasty George donated $200 and 4 cents. Chat two, if that is the case, where would men not so afraid of men and getting s.a.d.d. by them, then why do

SPEAKER_00thousands of women each year travel to other countries with high rates of crime and s.a.d.d.ing? Do you want to answer that? [Music] >> I think I don't know. I feel like people their

Lauren (UCSB)lives shouldn't be stopped based on just that and obviously they have to proceed with more caution than a man does. Uh I mean, that's kind of like a question it's like I guess I don't know. Like it's insinuating that

Lauren (UCSB)women should just, you know, absolutely not. I mean, clearly there's obviously countries, you know, um certain countries in the Middle East and everything um that are, you know, much more locked down for women and

Lauren (UCSB)obviously America we have the freedom to be able to, you know, date who we want, where we want, do what we want, be who we want. I mean, that's not really answering that question exactly, but yeah, that's what I feel.

Brian Atlas>> Pasty, if you want to respond to her, you you can. Uh thank you for the submission of the question there. All right. So, I guess just finishing off on the bear thing. What I guess what was the um

Brian Atlasand I would like We'll get into some dating stuff here, but um you had mentioned, Lauren, that uh uh what what was your I guess reasoning there with the whole bear

Brian Atlassituation? You said that well, with the bear they'll kill you. The men they'll they'll rape you. >> Well, essentially but it's basically just like my opinion that rape is much

Lauren (UCSB)worse than murder. I think that's what a lot of people are trying to say like in every moral aspect it's completely unnecessary. And I think violence can be justified in certain scenarios and I think

Brian Atlasthat's just my opinion. So you would rather in in your calculus of the situation, you would rather just be killed than to be s.a.d.d. That's not exactly what I was meaning. I'm just saying like

Lauren (UCSB)>> didn't you just say that s.a.d.d. is worse than death? Well >> What murder, but I mean same thing. I mean, I I don't know. Like in my opinion, I think it's kind of an opinion-based thing. I mean, it's a moral thing, you know. Whatever your opinion is.

Lauren (UCSB)>> Well, you were s.a.d.d., right? So would you rather been killed? I mean, I it's I don't know if I'd rather have been killed, but I'm saying a lot of women's experience and how violent that they've the things they've been through

Brian Atlas>> Sure, there's Yeah. Yeah, so it's >> Got you. Yeah. Well, I guess how in if we're going to make an assessment of like the worst moral wrong

Brian AtlasI'm going to present a bit of a not quite a trolley dilemma, I guess, but uh trolley problem. Um

Brian AtlasWell, I guess clarification on your position is do you think that s.a.d.d. like do you Is rape worse than murder? Or being killed?

Lauren (UCSB)Uh I think depending on I mean that is kind of a loaded question. I feel like it has a lot of like there's a lot of things you could respond to that. I mean, what do you have to say about that, Nick? >> would just say like

Lauren (UCSB)um Like I I guess morally it is worse than being killed for like many reasons in my opinion. Morally it's worse. >> Can I Can I say something? Please. Sure.

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)Um I was I don't know what what you want me to how you want me to say. Can I say molested? As a like when you were young? Let's not talk about that. >> Okay. I just had trauma, a lot of it, when I was young.

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)>> Okay. And I don't know what I would do if I wasn't here. Sorry, keep going. Keep going.

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)>> fine. No, keep going. I I am so grateful that I didn't die, that I'm here. Like I have my beautiful children and a wonderful life. And I would never let

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)what happened to me destroy my life now. And that's why I just I feel so strongly about that that it's a choice that you have to make in your head

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)that I am not going to let this now control the rest of my life. And so I just I'm sad that you feel that way. That's I'm saying that out of love and caring. Like I think the way I worded it

Anna (Colombia)>> you here. No, no, I know. I just think that the way I worded it was like not. It's just other people's experiences are different. >> Sure. I think that's what she's trying to like you know

Anna (Colombia)to get to that point. So it's not I assume it's not that you wanted to die. It's just like it's hard to get like I mean it's a hard experience to be sexually assaulted. Yeah, I think that's what I was trying

Brian Atlasto say. Well, there's I mean there's no dispute that of course this is a terrible crime and it's it's incredibly traumatic to the victim. Um but I guess the question here is more so

Brian Atlasum and you might even say that um I mean it's in terms of the offender

Brian Atlaswhat what is a greater moral wrong is is rape or murder? Which one is more morally wrong?

Brian AtlasThey're both morally wrong of course. They're severely morally wrong. No dispute there whatsoever. But um I guess I'm I guess I'm more curious about this

Brian Atlasidea that uh is is it from the from the victim's lens, is it worse to have been essayed or is it worse to have been murdered?

Lauren (UCSB)Which one is worse? I mean I think those are like two very opposite like wild extremes. Well, I don't think that's extreme, but Well, I mean having an opinion on those two things right now I you know I'm going to just

Anna (Colombia)>> agree with her. Like it depends on the experience. Like both are wrong in their own way cuz you don't have the right to kill someone, but you also I mean you don't have the right to like assault someone.

Anna (Colombia)You also don't have the right to assault someone sexually. So they're different. They are different, but It depends if you haven't like been sexually assaulted uh you can't like

Lauren (UCSB)you know you can't like fully talk about it until like Death is final though. Death is I think the way I'm wording this and the way I'm saying these things is cuz I'm nervous, but I think I just wanted to say that's not exactly what

Brian AtlasI'm trying to Sure. like put out there. You're like I I understand. Yeah, I mean but just in the context of the bear versus man, of course even in this example the bear could do nothing.

Brian AtlasSo the bear would not murder kill you, I guess. Um and you could walk by a man as you do all the time and not be raped. So it's like okay, but then we're having

Brian Atlaslike a I guess a determination as to you know severity, I guess. So Boy, wow, okay. Um

Brian AtlasOkay. Um all right. Well

Brian AtlasOkay. All right. Um How did we even get onto the bear versus man thing? >> I brought it up. Good job. We're going under her free show. Sorry. We're about to lose like our only

Brian Atlasum we're we're probably about to lose like our only uh what's it called? Democrat? Well, person who's going to provide like even give any pushback. So okay.

Brian AtlasUm I can go talk to her if you want. I think that's a bad idea. Um So um

Brian AtlasUltimately though, I don't know. On this [ __ ] topic people can heal from trauma. It's a terrible trauma to experience, but people can heal from it. Uh and then I

Brian Atlaswould also just think if it was actually the case that rape is in fact worse than than being killed, then wouldn't people just opt to unalive themselves immediate as soon as they have the opportunity to after the

Brian Atlasessay? Um and then also the question would simply be Here, please don't Is it necessary typing? Yes, you'll get your note like it. Okay. Um

Brian AtlasAnd then of course the question is uh well, if we're trying to measure the harm done, how many men do you have to

Brian Atlasuh how many men would you be willing to let be murdered to prevent one rape? Those would be my questions. So

Brian AtlasUh what I'm sorry, what do you mean, Nick? Okay, can you try please? All right. Um So all right, let's get into

Brian Atlasuh let's see here.

Brian AtlasOne sec, guys.

Brian AtlasWell, of course. Of course.

Brian AtlasI should have saw that coming.

Lauren (UCSB)Is it because of the conversation? >> it's other things as well. I have other like things to get to and I apologize. >> I mean you're already here. You're already here. You might as well see it through. No, this is a last minute decision on my part to even join this.

Natalie (MA)So I apologize, but I'm sorry about Do you want to stay at least for another hour or something? Another 2 hours? I think I'm I'm just going to Can I apologize to you because but I've I've

Natalie (MA)never been essayed. I Nobody can put their selves in your shoes. And I She here. I I I I would hope that you would sit down and have a conversation. >> not that. I Peace out. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_12>> Peace out. Peace out with you too, homie. Ta-ta.

Brian AtlasUh all right. Well, um Interesting. Bro. [ __ ] saw that [ __ ] coming, man.

Brian Atlas[ __ ] dude. All right. Well, congrats. It's a conservative panel. So you guys can just have no pushback at the [ __ ] panel. Enjoy.

OliwkaWe had one liberal. Because what >> think she's a coward and couldn't defend her worldview. And that's why she left. I don't buy the whole I have other stuff to do. No, I feel bad for her. I mean she said she

Oliwkagot essayed, but she's just categorizing men under one thing because she put herself in a shitty [ __ ] position. I'm not going to lie. She said what she went on some Tinder date. She was drinking with some guy 5 years older than her. You got to think about that. I

Felicitymean me personally, I've been young. I didn't do [ __ ] like that. I think the heavy topic just came in a little too fast and like you didn't you weren't aware of that. It's It's not your fault.

Maddie (MAGA Grandma)>> But I I think the heavy topic coming in so soon was She was moving on. >> understand we're a lot older. Like I I went through I've been through so much stuff, but it's easier for me

Anna (Colombia)cuz I've had a lot of years to deal with it all and Well, you seem like you have opposing views, but you're so like nonchalant. >> Well, um you know I'm listening to

Anna (Colombia)everyone else's opinion. It's just I do agree on some parts like what she say, but I also don't agree on some parts what you say, but it's just different. I mean a lot of people grow

Anna (Colombia)up in a different type of way. I'm from Colombia. I've traveled not only in the US, but other countries. So I always try to like see other people's perspective.

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