Andrew Wilson vs. Pxie (Feminist) HEATED DEBATE! | Whatever Debates #8
Date: 2024-08-03
Duration: 5h 08m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_01Pixie(guest)
SPEAKER_02Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_05TTS/Donations(audience)
SPEAKER_06TTS/Donations(audience)
SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)
Key Moments
00:01:29
QuoteBrian references the previous night's incident: a woman assaulted/harassed Andrew on the Whatever Discord stream. Andrew describes it as 'some kind of battery or at the very least harassment.' Brian says 'if I did it, I would have gone to jail.'
“What did she assault you or was it... I would say some kind of maybe battery or the very least harassment... If I did it I would have gone to jail”
00:02:28
QuoteBrian introduces Pixie: co-host of Sugar Spice podcast, triple-major University of Florida graduate (BS Psychology, BA Philosophy, BA Economics). Introduces Andrew Wilson as political commentator, bloodsport debater, host of The Crucible.
“His feminist debate opponent is Pixie... She's the co-host of the Sugar Spice podcast. She graduated from University of Florida with a triple major”
00:07:39
ControversyAndrew opens with the transcendental argument for God: knowledge requires an unchanging standard; the laws of logic are unchanging; therefore God (as the unchanging ground of truth) is the necessary precondition for knowledge. Any subjective worldview destroys the capacity to know anything.
“Without an unerring standard or a standard which is unchanging, your ability to know something is going to be arbitrary... I actually believe that there is truth which you can know”
00:28:44
QuotePixie chooses bear over man in the bear/man question — but only a black bear, not grizzly. Argues black bears typically don't realize they're apex predators and avoid humans, while men are more unpredictable. Grizzly bears: she'd take her chances with even a predatory man.
“If it's a black bear, I would pick bear. If it's anything but a black bear, I would pick a guy... grizzly bears will kill you on site”
01:33:20
ControversyAndrew states force doctrine: the reason women have rights is because men permit it. Men hold a monopoly on physical force. All female rights ultimately derive from male consent to grant those rights. This is the core of his anti-feminist argument.
“Men have a monopoly on force... the reason you have rights is because men allow you to have rights”
02:14:00
ControversyPixie argues female prison guards armed with guns are as effective as men — accuracy and speed are the key metrics, not strength. Andrew counters that prisoners would disregard gun threats from women more readily. Extended back-and-forth on whether women can realistically enforce order in all-male prisons.
“Same exact training with weaponry, same exact training for control... If I have a gun and I shoot you before you can reach me, you're going to go down”
03:06:29
QuotePixie describes an implicit force counter-argument: a hypothetical society where an employer opts out of wage garnishment enforcement, suggesting force is not always the mechanism underlying social agreements.
“Such a society could exist, right? Where an employer opts to not deal with the state”
03:42:02
QuoteTTS donation from 'Congrats you_played_yourself': '100% of what you scam as the patriarchy derives from female sexual selection. Men must climb hierarchies and attain power. If you didn't demand it, it would go away.' Brian calls it a good point.
“100% of what you scam as the patriarchy derives from female sexual selection. Men must climb hierarchies plus attain power. If you didn't demand it, it would go away”
03:55:00
ControversyAndrew presents the sexual selection argument: women's mate preferences (taller men, higher earners, status holders) are what create and sustain patriarchal hierarchies. If women didn't demand these traits, men would not compete for them. Women select a smaller pool of men (hypergamy) while men have broader preferences.
“Women desire a few different traits. They want men who are taller than them... men don't give a f*** if they make as much money... The pool opens much wider for men”
04:30:00
QuoteAndrew calculates stay-at-home mom labor: ~45 hours/week across childcare, cooking, cleaning, logistics. Compares to a professional working 60+ hours. Pixie pushes back on whether hours worked is the right metric for valuing childcare.
“Going to give you in 7 days 45 hours of labor... What do you think your husband's averaging of labor per day?”
04:52:00
ControversyAndrew concedes Pixie's argument that stay-at-home moms are vulnerable in divorce: they give up career advancement and financial independence. He acknowledges this was her strongest point in the debate. However, he argues the husband takes greater overall financial risk (alimony, asset split) in most divorce outcomes.
“I thought that that was a much better portion of the verbal sparring and that your points were a lot more solid there”
05:02:54
QuotePixie reveals her age (25) and marriage plans: wants to marry closer to 30, wants 3 kids, does not want to get divorced. Cites her family: 14 first cousins, most aunts/uncles married ~30 and had 3+ children. Andrew responds with biological clock warnings.
“I'm 25 and I don't want to get married until I am closer through 30 for a couple of reasons... I want three kids”
05:05:18
QuoteAndrew gives closing statement: thanks Pixie; declares force doctrine 'completely wrecked' Pixie's arguments; criticizes her prison guard stance; concedes stay-at-home mom divorce vulnerability as valid. Ends with 'God is real and Christ is God.'
“Force doctrine does exist... completely wrecked there... I thought you did pretty good on the last round... Also, God is real and Christ is God”
Topics Discussed
00:00:13
Show Intro & Announcements
Brian delivers intro monologue: Streamlabs vs. YouTube cut, TTS trigger details, Discord/Patreon links. Mentions previous night's stream where Andrew was assaulted/harassed by a woman ('battery or the very least harassment'). Clip available on Discord.
00:01:54
Debater Introductions
Brian introduces Pixie (Sugar Spice podcast co-host, triple-major UF graduate) and Andrew Wilson (The Crucible host, political commentator, bloodsport debater). Pixie gives opening statement: utilitarian worldview, egalitarian ideals, threshold deontology. Andrew gives opening statement: Eastern Orthodox Christian; knowledge requires an unchanging standard; presents transcendental argument for God.
00:08:20
Epistemology & Foundations Debate
Pre-debate philosophical exchange. Andrew argues knowledge is impossible without an unchanging standard (God). Pixie argues from subjective experience and empirical grounding. Discussion of laws of logic, Gettier problems, the barn hypothetical, objectivity vs. subjectivity, and whether relativism destroys the capacity for knowledge. Andrew presents the transcendental argument; Pixie challenges the 'box' limitation of subjectivism.
00:28:44
Man vs. Bear Question
Brian asks Pixie the 'man vs. bear in the woods' question. Pixie chooses bear — but only a black bear (not grizzly), citing unpredictability of men vs. known bear behavior. Andrew challenges by asking if she'd pat 100 random men vs. 100 bears — she concedes the point. Discussion of whether the bear/man choice reflects anti-male bias or rational risk assessment.
00:35:45
Feminism Definition & Scope
Andrew proposes definition: feminism = movement toward egalitarianism + dismantling of patriarchy. Pixie refines: equality of opportunity without enforcing interchangeability of outcomes. Both agree men and women have different ontological natures and interests. Discussion of whether gender stereotypes punish both sexes. Brief diversion: Brian announces previous guest Desiree is raffling off worn underwear.
00:54:00
Women in Male-Dominated Fields
Debate about why women are underrepresented in physically demanding/dangerous jobs. Pixie argues structural discrimination: women laughed out of oil fields, not given a chance. Andrew counters that women in politics are glorified not suppressed; no female Navy Seals exists. Discussion of epigenetics, interest divergence, and whether barriers are discriminatory or natural. Pixie argues women in male-dominated fields face higher rates of sexism/harassment.
01:28:20
Force Doctrine Debate
Extended debate on Andrew's 'force doctrine': men hold a monopoly on physical force, therefore all female rights ultimately derive from male permission. Pixie challenges: guns as equalizer, guerrilla warfare, implicit vs. explicit force. Andrew argues force doctrine explains societal power structures regardless of guns. Discussion of gun ownership distributions, women's ability to use firearms effectively, and whether force underpins all social contracts including employer/employee relations.
02:14:00
Female Prison Guards Debate
Pixie argues female prison guards with guns are as effective as men — accuracy and speed matter more. Andrew: male prisoners would overpower female guards regardless of gun accuracy. Discussion of reload speed, melee range, physical dominance, and whether women would invest their life savings in female-only prison guard staff. Both agree gun accuracy matters but disagree on real-world effectiveness in prison scenarios.
02:33:20
Firearms & Guerrilla Warfare
Andrew poses hypothetical: all US men's guns disappear, women have all firearms. Could women permanently enslave men? Pixie argues no — guerrilla tactics, subversion. Andrew argues women don't build guns, 3D printing hasn't led to armed female uprising, and force doctrine holds. Discussion of AR-15 / M16 ammunition history (McNamara's errors). Extended discussion of implicit force in contracts and the state's enforcement role.
03:00:00
Military Draft & Women in Combat
Brian asks Pixie if she'd support women being drafted. She says men would probably be picked more due to physical fitness. Discussion of mandatory vs. voluntary service, whether a nation without enough volunteers deserves to survive, former-military recall as an entailment of any draft system.
03:09:00
Patriarchy Definition & Power Structures
Return to core feminism debate. Brian asks if Pixie would ban men. Discussion of working definitions of feminism and patriarchy. Andrew argues women have statuses and power men don't. Pixie argues power wielded through social contracts and indirect force, not just brute force. Discussion of Rome as a republic vs. patriarchy, egalitarian societies. TTS donation: '100% of what you call patriarchy derives from female sexual selection.'
03:45:00
Sexual Selection & Mating Behavior
Andrew argues women's mate selection criteria (height, income, status) drive men to compete for hierarchical positions — if women didn't demand these traits, patriarchal structures would dissolve. Women select from a smaller pool of men (hypergamy). Discussion of millionaire men vs. younger women, class marriage patterns, and whether intelligence is a positive trait in female mates. Twitch poll: 93% say they'd prefer a hot 25-year-old over a wealthy 35-year-old.
04:20:00
Stay-at-Home Mom Economics
Andrew and Pixie calculate stay-at-home mom labor hours: ~45 hours/week across childcare, cooking, cleaning, logistics. Andrew argues this is less than a 60+ hour professional workweek. Pixie argues childcare is more emotionally demanding than quantifiable hours suggest. Discussion of whether stay-at-home parenting is a privilege or burden. Debate on divorce vulnerability of stay-at-home moms — Andrew concedes Pixie's point that stay-at-home moms are financially exposed if marriage ends.
04:50:00
Divorce Risk & Marriage Economics
Discussion of who bears more risk in marriage with a stay-at-home partner. Andrew argues men take greater financial risk (alimony, asset split, custody costs). Pixie argues women who give up careers are economically vulnerable. Discussion of divorce rates by income bracket, whether post-divorce women are better or worse off than pre-marriage. Statistics on women initiating divorces cited. Andrew's closing statement: force doctrine proven; feminism not demonstrated. Pixie's closing: appreciated the debate; still disagrees on power structures.
05:03:18
Closing Statements & Wrap-Up
Andrew's closing: thanks Pixie; critiques her patriarchy definition, force doctrine, and prison guard arguments as weak; acknowledges stay-at-home mom divorce vulnerability as her strongest point. Pixie's closing: tired, hungry, appreciates spirited exchange. Brian reads final TTS messages. Pixie confirms she is 25 and wants to marry ~30 with 3 kids. Twitch raid attempted. Brian announces Sunday 5pm Pacific Dating Talk episode.
Transcript
Page 5 of 6
03:58:30
Brian Atlasfor this of, you know, rich older women that go for younger men. The cougars aren't marrying him. Uh, I donated this [ __ ] $200 just to get this dumb
03:58:42
Brian Atlasargument across. Please let this sink in. Men don't give a rat's ass about a woman's intelligence. We just don't. Don't [ __ ] care. Like, look, the thing is is that when you when you if
03:58:53
Andrew Wilsonyou make these uh value judgments, I'm willing to concede to your value judgments. I am willing to concede that men value all these different things.
03:59:02
Andrew WilsonThey value intelligence. They value um uh kindness. Uh there's a million different kind of like attributes that I would say men value. What I'm saying is
03:59:13
Andrew Wilsonthat the primary value that they they value more than any of those is the idea that you're [ __ ] hot. That's what they value more than anything else, more than any of those tangentials. Now, you
03:59:26
Andrew Wilsoncan create offsets. This is so not true. I'm sorry. Stop. You can take create offsets where you say that I can slightly decrease the primary attribute to the point that it's
03:59:36
Andrew Wilsonalmost who cares like nose in a slightly different position, eyelashes a little longer than I'd like, but I can compensate for that with she has $8
03:59:45
Andrew Wilsonmillion or she's a [ __ ] 160 IQ neurosurgeon. Sure, I'll concede to that. Who gives a [ __ ] Um, I want to go back to a couple of things you were saying. Oh, you know,
03:59:58
Pixiethese women aren't marrying like these younger men or whatever. They're not. Um, the vast majority are not, but the vast majority of millionaire men are not marrying the 25-year-old baristas either. Far more of them are than the vast majority of people though, if we're
04:00:10
Pixietalking about, you know, society as a whole. We're not just talking about outliers. Not just age range, we're talking about class lines. Most wealthy people marry other wealthy people. That's just how it beat. So, the whole idea like, oh, look at these subsection
04:00:23
Andrew Wilsonof men that are marrying younger women. We have not the vast majority difference though in the avenue of what's pursued. So that what this is a really interesting phenomenon which is that
04:00:34
Andrew Wilsoninterestingly enough women's mate selection when we see what they're moving towards it seems to be a smaller section of men than it is for men
04:00:43
Andrew Wilsontowards women. Meaning that men seem to want a much larger pool of women than the opposite. Why would that be? Well, it's because women desire a few
04:00:54
Andrew Wilsondifferent traits. They want men who are taller than them. Of course, men don't give a [ __ ] if women are taller than them or shorter than them. They don't [ __ ] care. Women want generally for men to make slightly more money than
04:01:06
Andrew Wilsonthey do, or at least on par with the money they do. Men don't give a [ __ ] if they make as much money as they do, right? Women prefer probably to have a mate who they think um, you know, can maybe fix cars or has a bunch of
04:01:19
Andrew Wilsonpractical skills and things like this. Men again don't give a flying [ __ ] So what happens is the pool opens much wider for men because they're selecting for one primary thing over all others.
04:01:30
Andrew WilsonWomen aren't doing that. Yes. Will women marry unattractive men who have really high status or get together with them? They do it all the [ __ ] time, right? Men, on the other hand, are not going to
04:01:42
Andrew Wilsonsettle down generally uh with a woman who's [ __ ] ugly as [ __ ] They're looking for some kind of woman who has some kind of beauty standard. That's it. As I stated before, the reason why women
04:01:54
Pixieare looking for people who have around like the same status as they do or higher is because women are still expected to take on the vast majority of home labor and are, you know, basically
04:02:05
Pixieunhappy with how uneven that system is. They women do not want to be doing both home labor and out home labor. They want to be able to either basically pick one or have it be around equal for both
04:02:16
TTS/Donationspartners. So when you have a society, how do you explain women saying then they're proud? L Paladins donated $100. She is also conflating intelligence with
04:02:28
TTS/Donationsuniversity brainwashing. Smart women are rare and nice. A woman with a degree is actually a negative. Most women aren't neurosurgeons, worthless debts. But even if we were to grant it, lol paladins,
04:02:41
Andrew Wilsoneven if we were just to kind of grant her idea of this, it it still wouldn't negate my point, so who cares? Um, but I mean, it's a good point. I'm just saying it doesn't negate mine either way. As I said before about like home labor essentially, what was the question that
04:02:55
Andrew Wilsonyou asked? Well, so you were saying that the reason that women are selecting for this is because they don't want to do both the external uh work and have to do the home labor. But the thing that's really interesting is that men are showing
04:03:07
Andrew WilsonOh, sorry. I remember what you asked. Men are showing a consistent desire to have women stay home where they don't have to do any external labor and women are still shutting them down. They say, "No, that doesn't go in with my
04:03:19
Andrew Wilsonpreference of having my own safety net and having my own career, which is the thing that I desire, not to stay at home." So, this argument that you are making right now, no, no, no. women
04:03:29
Andrew Wilsonwould definitely hook up or end up marrying these guys if only they wouldn't make them work and stay at home is kind of moot because they don't want that. Yeah. Women basically want to be able to
04:03:40
Pixiehave their own career and have somebody who is willing to take 50% of the at home. Like they're demanding a higher status from men than men are demanding from or no, they're demanding somebody to also take at home labor. So when you
04:03:53
Pixielook at like a lot of reasons why women divorce, one of them is like basically like differences in in the household unsatisfaction. What's the number one What's the number one reason they divorce? Irreconcilable differences. Yeah. Followed by problem. What What do you think though those irreconcilable
04:04:07
Andrew Wilsondifferences are? Well, usually when Pew Research dove into this, it was really interesting because I had the same question. What the [ __ ] What What does that mean? Irreconcilable differences. The woman says, "I fell out of love. He didn't give me the butterflies."
04:04:20
Andrew WilsonWhy do you think that happened? Well, when they dive into it, they just say over time, in many cases, these women say there was nothing wrong with him. He just didn't give me the feeling anymore. Yeah. At least from what I've
04:04:31
Pixieresearched, it seems like a lot of these women when it comes to especially households where the basically chore discrepancy is large and the women are still making around the same as the guy,
04:04:42
Pixiethey start feeling like they're mothers essentially to their men. They feel like, oh, you know, here I am being like basically the same level of bread winner and now having to do the cleaning, but they're divorcing at the same rates
04:04:54
Pixieeven if the man is significantly making more money than them. I am not certain about that. I would have to see the what is it the exact study? Um, well, not only is it certain, but I
04:05:06
Andrew Wilsonmean, if you take the pool, right, here's the here's the percenture. People with higher edge are less likely to divorce. in higher brackets they're less likely to be divorced because both of them are in a higher bracket. So why
04:05:18
Andrew Wilsonthe thing that's interesting is that because you have the center class which is accounting for most marriages not the higher class or the lower class but the center class the lower class less likely to get divorced higher class more or I'm
04:05:30
Andrew Wilsonsorry more likely to get divorced higher class uh more likely to stay together. But what about this massive center this center hole? Well, when you look at the preferences in this massive center who's
04:05:42
Andrew Wilsonaccommodating almost all of these marriages, most of them in fact, you find something really interesting, which is that men, their preference is we'll do a little more without, okay, and you
04:05:54
Andrew Wilsoncan stay at home. Women say, "No, [ __ ] that. I don't want that. I don't prefer that lifestyle. I want to work." Okay? So, I want to split these chores with you. And he's like, "No, I don't want to split chores. I want to work. You do the
04:06:06
Andrew Wilsonchores at home." They want a traditional marriage. In other words, women are saying no. They're opting out of that. So again, if we go back to your idea of status as being the symbol of patriarchy, it appears to me that women
04:06:19
Andrew Wilsonare demanding that men reach such a status where they not only are earning the same amount, okay, or more, but are also splitting the housework. Whereas men, their idea
04:06:31
Andrew Wilsonequal status, their idea of this is actually less. No, it's not equal. It's a It's a privilege to stay at home. It's not a privilege to [ __ ] work. Privilege to have to do everybody's chores. Laundry. Oh, no. You have to do your own [ __ ]
04:06:43
Andrew Wilsonlaundry. That's Why do you think if Being a housewife is the easiest [ __ ] job on planet Earth? Don't ever try to [ __ ] me. I've had one for years. Okay. If this was the case job ever,
04:06:55
Pixieif this was the case, why do [ __ ] rich people outsource that labor if it's basically nothing? What do you mean? Why not? What? Because they're busy touring. They're busy. It's not glamorous. They're busy touring the [ __ ] is not what is it? Labor is not
04:07:07
Pixieglamorous. It's a labor. When you can outsource it, you do. So, nobody's like, "Wow, I'm staying at home and I'm making the same amount of money. This is so much fun." Obviously, you're making more money. You want the person to do the
04:07:20
Andrew Wilsonsame level of labor. I just want to make sure, right? If you're if you're trying to make the case that labor is labor and labor hard, therefore people don't want to do labor. Sure, I agree. But you do way more
04:07:33
Pixie[ __ ] labor having a job than being a stay-at-home mom. What are you talking about? That's where people would disagree. Who who would disagree? Okay, let's go through. I would say it's a different type of labor. I would say at least Okay. No, no, listen. Listen. Yeah, let's get
04:07:46
Pixiethrough it. At least when it comes to labor in the house, like outside the household, I am guaranteeing a level of wealth for myself versus if I'm just doing internal household labor, it becomes significantly harder for me to make my own business or to continue
04:07:59
Pixiemaking money. though. So it means it's less stable. It means I am now That's because you're doing less work. Yeah. And I thought our whole issue is labor.
04:08:09
PixieLess work. Not not just less work, which honestly is contentious. Whatever. Well, yeah. But let's start with that contention. No, no, no. You are not jumping around. Let's start making money. You're not
04:08:20
Pixiemaking You can be You can have great. You can paddle all you want. I'll wait till you're done paddling, but you're not going to get away from I can be I can be at home. Let's say I live in a pigsty and I have to do 20 amount more labor than if I went out to
04:08:33
Andrew Wilsonwork. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how hard the labor is at home because the point of the matter is I am not making money at home. Great. So now let's get back to this idea first before I address point two and three cuz you always bring them up
04:08:44
Andrew Wilsonin fours cuz you gish gallop a lot. Let's just start with the first point. Can you explain to me how being a housewife can you walk me through your labor day? Go ahead. Walk me through the labor day you think a housewife goes
04:08:57
Pixiethrough. I'm basically cooking, cleaning, taking care of um well, it depends on what type of household you're in, but let's say for the very basics of very essentials, you're cooking, cleaning, and most
04:09:10
Andrew Wilsonlikely taking care of children. Okay. So, let's say you have two kids at home. Yeah. Okay. Um one is five and the other one is 10.
04:09:20
PixieOkay. Uh walk me through your housewife day. Um, I wake up. What is it? Probably early because I have to get the kids to school. What time? Um, either 6:00 or 7 a.m. Okay. So, you wake up at 7:00 a.m.
04:09:34
PixieGotcha. Okay. Um, I Kids get on the bus, right? Well, no. First, I have to cook breakfast. You don't have to cook breakfast. I most schools have free breakfast.
04:09:45
Andrew WilsonNot that's definitely not true. Most definitely do not have free breakfast. That's why they're trying to pass bills across the state. Okay. But but even assuming that you give them a [ __ ] Go-Gurt and a bowl of cereal, you give them a bowl of
04:09:59
Pixiecereal on their way out. Okay, whatever. I'm You're asking me my day as a housewife. I'm telling you. I cook breakfast um for them and for my husband um and what are you cooking for breakfast on an average day?
04:10:11
Andrew WilsonLet's say I'm making, you know, eggs, bacon, pancakes, typical American breakfast. You're making that every day, huh? Maybe not every day, but a few. How many days do you think a week you would make eggs and bacon and and sausage and toast for the kids?
04:10:24
PixieUm, let's say two or three times. Oh, you're going to make it three times. Okay. Three times. Okay. So, then what happens? Um, then I have to get the children ready for school, which means that I have to make sure that they put on like
04:10:37
Pixiebasically like, oh, get ready like put on your clothes. We got 20 minutes. They're brushing their teeth. Yeah. 20 minutes later. Make sure that they have everything in there. What is it? That's more than 20 minutes, by the way, to get kids ready for school
04:10:49
Pixieto make sure that they're What is it? Lunchbox has everything because I have to pack their lunch, too. You pack it the night before. Um, okay. Well, we can add those minutes of labor at the end anyways. Um, what is it? I also have to make sure that
04:11:01
Andrew WilsonSo, you're up at 7:00 a.m. You've cooked breakfast, eggs and bacon and sausage. I'm going to give you a generous 30 minutes for that. 20 minutes of getting them ready. Now, they're at school. Okay. Now, how long do you not have to take care of kids while they're at school? They're You're going to say, "Oh,
04:11:15
Pixiethey're at school for eight hours." Uhhuh. So, eight hours of labor gone. No, not No, because in between that time, I have to make sure I'm like cleaning everything. Okay. So, let's go through. How big is your house?
04:11:25
PixieUm, let's say it's an average uh or this is not average, whatever. Let's say it's a threebedroom. I'm okay. So, how many square feet is a threebedroom? I don't know. I can't think from the top of my head. Okay. So, an average three-bedroom
04:11:37
Andrew Wilsonhouse. I'll just give you the square footage here. We'll say we we're going to be really generous. give you a nice big house. 3,000 square feet. That's big. Oh, big house. That takes time. Also,
04:11:50
Pixieso hang on. Walk me through your three bedroomedroom 30,000 foot house. I want to pause for one second. I don't want to pause. I want you to walk me through the day. No, no, no, no. Because here's
04:12:00
PixieWalk me through your day. I am walk through.
04:12:06
PixieI am walking you through the day. Good. Then finish walking me through your day. But here's the deal. Okay, here we go. Whatever offiscation. It's not offiscation. It's going to be offiscation. Just look at just look at the [ __ ] general market. We know how
04:12:18
Pixiemuch we value this labor because when we get we outsource it to other people. It cost 17 bucks an hour. It costs more than 17 bucks an hour. I have a maid service. What are you talking about? Okay.
04:12:31
Andrew WilsonI don't want to be that person. Whatever. I grew up with a family that could afford that. About 17 bucks an hour. They come once a week and do a deep clean. takes them 3 hours to do a deep clean. 17 an hour. Anyway, so 3bedroom, 3,000
04:12:44
Andrew Wilsonft². Walk me through the rest of your [ __ ] day. Kids are gone. What's the first thing you're going to do? Probably clean. Clean what? Breakfast. Okay, so you clean breakfast. That's going to take you what, uh, 15 minutes? It's going to take me more. I mean, what
04:12:58
Pixieis it? That's four. You take the dishes, you rinse them, you put them in the [ __ ] dishwasher. This is not rocket science. It's not just what is it that it's also like crumbs in the floor, vacuuming, you know, wiping down the table. What are your [ __ ] kids animals?
04:13:11
Andrew WilsonI mean, it's your kids are [ __ ] Do they just take their plate and put their whole face in or No, I mean, what is it? What are you talking about? Like, it's it's just basic, right? Like, that's not basic. My kids don't [ __ ] stick their whole face in a plate and
04:13:25
Andrew Wilsonslop around like the whole thing in the place. Yeah, there's no crumbs. There's not [ __ ] all over the floor. What are you talking about? Okay. Okay. So anyway, so you got but let's just say you pick up a few crumbs and this and that,
04:13:37
Andrew Wilsonokay, from your animal kid. So you can't control cuz you're a bad mom. So now we've got Hang on. So now we're uh we're what? 30 minutes. 30 minutes to clean up breakfast. Um maybe more. Whatever. Okay. How much How long does it take you
04:13:50
Andrew Wilsonto clean up [ __ ] breakfast? 30 minutes. Let's say 30 minutes. I swear I could clean up a breakfast for six men in 30 minutes. Okay, let's say 30 minutes.
04:13:57
PixieOkay, 30 minutes. Um, what is it then? I'd probably have to vacuum like clean down whatever the different rooms in the house. Make sure
04:14:10
Andrew Wilsondepends on how big the house is. You said 3,000 3,000 ft. Yeah. You got to vacuum the house. Oh, plus laundry. Yeah. What if you have hardwood floors like most, you know, sane people do when they have kids?
04:14:21
PixieUm, I mean, you still have to vacuum and wipe down the mop. Um, yeah. So, you mop. So, you're gonna mop. You're gonna do this every day, by the way. You'd probably do it um It depends on what basically like every other day is.
04:14:35
Andrew WilsonOkay. Well, let's just use your most load heavy day. So, this day you're going to you're going to clean the house. Your most load heavy day you can think of. Yeah. Okay. Um so, that would probably take me um I don't know. It could take
04:14:48
Pixiebe like anywhere like two hours. It's going to take you two [ __ ] hours. Really? If I'm doing all the rooms and if I'm doing what is it? Vacuuming. You're going to deep clean every room in your house once a week. I'm talking about like mopping. I'm then
04:15:00
Pixietalking about um vacuuming. Yeah. It's going to take you 2 hours to vacuum your house. [ __ ] 3,000 square ft. And vacuum plus mopping. I'm putting both And you're going to do this every day. I'm not saying every day. Okay. But on your labor intensive day.
04:15:13
PixieOkay. So, we're going to add 2 hours. Now, what? Okay. Um then I have to check what if there's enough food in the fridge, if I have to go out to the supermarket or not. like basically take into
04:15:24
Andrew Wilsonconsideration that sorry I'm so fizzy. So you you've taken into So now you need to go to the store and get something from the supermarket. Yeah. I have to get food for everything. Okay. So you have to get food. So how long does that take you?
04:15:36
PixieUm I don't know. Most people take like an hour in the supermarket. Okay. So we got an hour. Okay. What else? Okay. Um then basically you get back
04:15:48
Pixiehome. Uh, you do have free time now or you have some level of free time. You either basically can like lay around, wait. Mhm. Um, so you're going to lay around and wait
04:16:01
Andrew Wilsonfor how many hours? So, I mean, we've got three. So, now I want you I want to tell you where you're at in your day so far. Okay. This is what I have. Your day started. Oh, take out the trash.
04:16:12
Andrew WilsonAnd and and this takes hours, I'm sure. No, it doesn't take hours. That's just another thing to add on to the list. How long? How long? 2 minutes. Yeah. Is it five minutes? Five minutes. We just like be really generous here. Yeah.
04:16:24
Andrew WilsonOkay. So, so far I I have the count at and I think this is very generous to you. 4 hours of work and now you're lazing around your house. Okay. So, hang on. At
04:16:36
Andrew Wilsonthe by the time you're doing this, I want to let you know your day started at 7. Yeah. Okay. Uh so, what do we got? 8 9 10. So, now it's 11:00 and you ain't doing [ __ ] Okay. The kids
04:16:48
Andrew Wilsonget out of school at what time? Um 3 3:30. They get out at 3. 3:30. Okay. So we have So we have 4 hours of you not doing [ __ ] right now. Okay. Wait, let me let's continue. The kids get back home. Oh, you have to go
04:17:01
Andrew Wilsonpick up the kids, right? No, you can have the school bus drop them off like every human being on planet Earth usually does. But even assuming you have to go pick them up will generously add another 30 minutes. School bus picks them up.
04:17:12
PixieUm unless of your kids are unless of like bad mom basically. I don't want to say that because there's so many different whatever. Um, you're bad mom if the school bus drops off your kids. No, no, no. I'm about to say you're gonna have to take them to extracurriculars unless if they have
04:17:26
Andrew Wilsonnone. So at 10. Yeah. What extracurricular is your kid going to be in the [ __ ] Einstein program? What extracurriculars? Did you not have extracurriculars when you were 10? No. Okay.
04:17:37
Andrew WilsonWhat extracurriculars are there at 10? Yes. Simple sports like volleyball or soccer or whatever. You think I'm going to You think that kids at 10 years old are out at their [ __ ] tea? What were you doing at 10? I was doing volleyball
04:17:51
Pixieat 10. Yes. I'm not every day after school. Not every day, but like how many days after school? I think like twice or maybe three times. Okay. So, you got to pick the one kid up from school and then the other one probably has
04:18:04
Andrew Wilsonother different extracurricular activities. Okay. So, you pick them both up. Yeah. Okay. So, now we've lazed around for 4 hours. Now, you're doing work again. You've gone and picked them both up. That takes an hour. Now what? Now you have to drive them to their extracurriculars.
04:18:17
PixieNo, no, no. You pick them up from their extracurriculars. Well, no. Okay. You pick them up from school, then you have to take them to their extracurriculars. And then you have to you went to volleyball absent your school. What do you mean? Didn't you just when you were done with school, you had volleyball at the
04:18:31
Pixieschool, right? Not always. Sometimes when you have like those groups or whatever, they have practices like outside or they have That's [ __ ] rare. They do it at school. Not all schools. Okay. Well, what
04:18:43
Andrew WilsonI didn't You're in a 3,000 foot house in the poorest community on planet Earth that doesn't do volleyball training at the school. I literally What is it? Sometimes they do, but sometimes they have outside training. All right. All right. Okay. So, we got another hour. We're at 5 hours of of
04:18:56
Andrew Wilsonactual labor and four hours of lazing. So, give me the rest of the eight hours here in your labor intensive day. So, then include bringing them back from the extra extracurriculars. Okay. So, I'll add another hour there.
04:19:07
Andrew WilsonNow, we're at six hours. um helping them with all their different homework. Okay. So, how long does that take you to do a 10-year-old's homework? Have you ever had? Yes, I have. Have you? I mean, I've helped my younger cousin
04:19:21
Andrew Wilsonbefore. Okay. How many How long? Um let's say it takes an hour. Not because 1 hour. Okay. Yeah. So, now we're at 7 hours of labor. Yeah. This is your most labor intensive day. Better give me some more cuz we're only at 7 hours. What else we got? You've got dinner, right?
04:19:34
Andrew WilsonUm yeah, 9 hours. Definitely got to do dinner. That's an hour. Yeah. So now we're at 8 hours, right? And now you have to clean after dinner. Now we have to clean after dinner. So that's 30 minutes. Now we're at 8 and 1/2 hours, right?
04:19:46
PixieYeah. And now um what is it? You have to pack their lunch for the next day. Sure. You said include it at the end. So that means I get to make lunch. Uhhuh. Um so what is that? 30 minutes. An hour. Sure. We'll get 30 minutes.
04:19:59
PixieOkay. So now we're at uh now we're at 9 hours and then um what is it? None of this includes basically this stuff that you have to do outside of school for your children. So
04:20:13
Pixiewhether it be or I guess extracurriculars kind of counts, but that's like part of school. But now I'm thinking like okay, like being involved in like playdates, being involved in Okay, so now it's bedtime basically, right? Okay. Yeah, you have to get them ready for bedtime. Yeah. Get them ready to bed. We got 30
04:20:26
Andrew Wilsonminutes. Now we're at 9 and 1/2 hours and then you go to bed after chilling for a while, right? So we got 9 and 1/2 hours of labor on your most labor intensive day. Yeah. Can you walk me through your least labor intensive day and what that looks like?
04:20:39
PixieOkay. Yeah, sure. There's some days where all you have to do is cook and clean. How many hours do you think in your least labor intensive days? In my least labor intensive days. Um,
04:20:53
Pixiewell, no, not just cook and clean, bringing them in and out of school and extracurriculars, but maybe they don't have extra. Okay. Least least labor intensive, I'd say like three hours. Three hour days. Okay. How many of those
04:21:04
Andrew Wilsondo you are you gonna have a week? Um, depends. Maybe three or four. Okay. So, we'll say uh just to be conservative, three. Okay.
04:21:15
Andrew WilsonAnd then on your kind of medium days, we'd split it and say like six hours. Okay. Sure. Okay. Six hours. And then that's not So, now let's come up with our labor value here. And to be clear, this is not
04:21:27
Pixieincluding basically setting up things like playdates for your kids going to other places or for the kids coming to your house. Um, you know, ideally if you can,
04:21:38
Andrew Wilsonwe'll add we'll add some of that on. So, let's say 3 days a week at 3 hours. Okay. So, now we're at 9 hours of total work just on your lightest days. 9 hours total. Then we're going to add in your heaviest
04:21:51
Andrew Wilsonday, which is going to be another 9 hours. We're at 18. Okay, that leaves us with the split of six at four. So that's going to be um plus 6 plus 6 plus 6 plus 6.
04:22:02
Andrew WilsonDid we never included laundry? Yeah. Okay. How how long for laundry? You put it in the washer and you walk away from it. Well, no, because you also are doing it by hand clothes and you're also having to strip
04:22:14
Pixiethe kids at 10 put their own clothes away. Didn't you teach your kids nothing? Um are your kids dumb? They already are eating out of a trough. You still have to do your family, your what is it? Your husband and yours. Unless if you're
04:22:26
Andrew Wilsongiving your husband labor at home, but assuming you're staying at home. No. Um, and then you're also putting away. So, at a generous Yeah. very generous of me, by the way, I'm
04:22:36
Andrew Wilsongoing to give you in 7 days 45 hours of labor. 7 days. Okay. So, now let's go ahead and divide that. Okay. At seven, you're averaging six hours of labor a
04:22:50
Andrew Wilsonday. What do you think your husband's averaging of labor per day? Yeah, you're going to say 9 to5. Um, basically, no, no, no. He's supporting an entire family. He ain't working 40 hours a [ __ ] week.
04:23:02
Andrew WilsonUm, no [ __ ] way he's working 40 hours a week. Income bracket 100%. Yeah. Okay. The average income bracket, this guy's pulling in at least 60 hours a week taking care of a family, right?
04:23:14
Andrew WilsonI don't know, honestly. I don't Well, let's just give it 40. Let's just give it 40. He's still doing 8 hours a day of labor in way less of a labor window than you are. 5 days versus seven. He's still working harder than
04:23:25
Andrew Wilsonyou. If we give you the maximum amount of labor I can think of, he's still working harder than you. Is he doing um what is it? Is he doing physical labor or is his job serving? Any labor he's doing is harder than what
04:23:38
Andrew Wilsonyou have described. No, I disagree. Um really vacuuming vacuuming and driving to get stuff from the store. the difference and I'll tell maybe you can do your job in your pajamas. What is it literally?
04:23:50
PixieSo basically, and there's been like a couple of studies on this anyways, the 9 to 5 job. Oh, thank god there's been studies. Yeah. No, you can laugh at me all you want. The facts are facts. Um, nobody
04:24:02
Pixieactually works 9 to5. Yeah. Well, then I'm going to assume you don't actually work this amount of labor either. Okay. The point being is that it seems like even though people go to the office 9 to5,
04:24:16
Pixielet me finish my sentence. Seems it is the case that basically people do not actually work the entire time that they're at the office. It seems like there's a maximum amount seems Let me finish.
04:24:27
PixieWell, no, I can't I can't I need you to commit to your positions, not say seams. I'm committing to the fact that people don't actually um work their entire 9 to5. There is a limit to how much human productivity can get in a day, especially in an office.
04:24:40
PixieWhy should we assume that the same is the case for the housewife? The reason why we specifically labeled it different is because you're and this is why I specified is it physical labor
04:24:50
Pixieor not. Um because you are taking care of both. Okay, you're going to you're I know you're going to laugh at me. whatever the mental load in the sense of like, oh, trying to keep track of everybody's schedules, trying to keep track of
04:25:03
Andrew Wilsoneverybody has their things together, trying to keep track of everything. Um, you don't really you got to get your ass 10:00 in the morning. The difference is you don't clock out. You just had a 4-hour window where you clock the [ __ ] out.
04:25:16
Andrew WilsonNot really on your busiest day. 4 hours of doing nothing on your busiest day. Not really. Cuz there is still always resp. sitting on the [ __ ] couch eating bon bonss watching Oprah. The
04:25:27
Pixiedifference always always always going to be responsible for what happens to your children. So if something wrong Yes. If you're if you're [ __ ] out and then you miss a [ __ ] message from the school saying, "Hey, we
04:25:40
Pixieneed you to pick up Jimmy. He just like, you know, broke his [ __ ] arm." You're the one who has to like which happens every once in a while. Well, it doesn't matter if it happens once every once in a while. The point that I'm trying to get across here is that
04:25:52
Andrew Wilsonan afternoon nap might get interrupted by having to go pick up Jimmy. The Okay, you're not letting me finish. Well, I'm sorry. Listen, no, you can make fun of me. I've had I have a huge family. I've raised a lot of kids. I've got a
04:26:03
Andrew Wilsonhousewife. And let me tell you something. It's not a hard [ __ ] job. And the thing is is I here let me walk you through a real day of an average housewife. Not their coping [ __ ]
04:26:14
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] day. even giving you a 3,000 foot house. You couldn't fill more than a six-hour window of your day. And that doesn't surprise me because here's what actually happens. A cold lunch gets put
04:26:25
Andrew Wilsonin the fridge for the next [ __ ] day. Okay? Kid comes by in the morning, eats a [ __ ] bowl of cereal, grabs the bag lunch, he's on the [ __ ] school bus, and she doesn't do [ __ ] for hours. That's most housewives cuz they don't
04:26:37
Andrew Wilsonhave to. Because the nice thing about a house, if it's maintained, it's maintained so you don't have to clean it. The reason it's maintained with a tiny amount of labor so that you don't have to expand a large amount of labor. Should we have Rachel uh do a call-in
04:26:52
Pixiereal quick? Sure. Can you call her on the phone? I would love I'd love to hear you tell Rachel about how hard a housewife's job is. No, because I'm not trying to play housewife [ __ ] Olympics. What I'm trying to get across No, it's very I mean, you kind of are cuz you're
04:27:05
Pixieyou're extrapolating that the labor of a housewife is equal to even let me finish my last like five sentences. Like holy [ __ ] Go ahead. The point that I'm trying to get across is that when you are a housewife or a mom or whatever,
04:27:17
Pixieyou are basically constantly 24/7 responsible for your children and responsible like essentially for what your husband does at home. Um, that is taxing, that is
04:27:29
Pixieexhausting. It is a different type of labor than going to the office. And not only that, but it's a labor where you're not getting [ __ ] paid. So no matter what, at the end of the day, you are put
04:27:41
Andrew Wilsonat a disadvantage. So when I come home, hang on. So when I come home, yeah, make it fair. So when I come home from the end of a day of the end of a workday and I hear, "Honey, the
04:27:52
Andrew Wilsonthe drain is clogged, the pipe is broke, the [ __ ] door handle fell off, a kid [ __ ] hit their elbow through the wall. Oh, I need all this [ __ ] [ __ ] fixed. Oh, and the car is making funny noises. Am I getting paid for any of that labor?"
04:28:06
Andrew WilsonNo, but you're getting paid for the labor you do at the office. No, she's also getting paid for the labor I do. Now, let me ask you a question. Is she eating off that labor?
04:28:17
Andrew WilsonSo, she I'm Yes. Would she have to eat? But the point is, would she have to eat even on the merits of her own labor? Yeah. Okay. So, in both cases, would she have to house herself on the merits of her
04:28:30
Andrew Wilsonown labor? Yes. Would she have to heat her house? But so so the thing is is she's still getting all of the benefits of the labor just like I'm getting the benefits of the labor. The difference is is that I still have to take on unpaid labor.
04:28:43
PixieShe's actually getting paid for her labor. No, the absolute difference is that No, absolutely not. There is an absolute difference here and it's that you ultimately do have control of the
04:28:55
Pixiefinances. If you decide to quit or to leave the next day, she is absolutely [ __ ] There's no way out of it. Think about what you're saying here.
04:29:05
Andrew WilsonYou're saying that because the potential exists, that the relationship may not work out, that you need to create safeguards for yourself and the inevitable conclusion that it won't. Why
04:29:16
Andrew Wilsonwould any man want to marry a woman in a million [ __ ] years who says, "I demand to have a safeguard for when this doesn't work out if women are the ones initiating most of the divorces."
04:29:27
Andrew WilsonIt's what is it? It's not even the worst case scenario. If you die, she's [ __ ] Yeah, but what about the net loss to the man? Think about it from a man's perspective of wait a second. I just
04:29:38
Andrew Wilsonworked for 25 [ __ ] years and you spent up huge amounts of my wealth, time, and everything else. You spent that and I had to spend it on you taking care of you. You [ __ ] taking care of your prodigy, your
04:29:50
Andrew Wilsonchildren. Even if that's the case, you are also taking care of your children. She has an obligation to take care of her children. Taking care of their children more without she has that obligation just like you do
04:30:02
Andrew Wilsontake care of the children. That is equally yolked. But he conveniently you leave out, wait, I spent [ __ ] hundreds of thousands of dollars on [ __ ] you taking care of making sure that you had the heating and everything
04:30:15
Pixieelse in this big house that I would not ordinarily need and you got all of that. That doesn't count. [ __ ] compensate me. What do you mean? I'm saying that, hey, you know, you can take care of her or whatever while she's taking care of the
04:30:27
Pixiehousehold labor. Sure. Whatever. The point of the the point of it is that if something happens to you, she is now [ __ ] And I'm not even saying be malicious about it. I'm saying let's
04:30:39
Andrew Wilsonsay you get a heart attack. So the point being is that she is essentially risking everything to just rely on you. So is he take him for everything in divorce court? Everything. Get alimony.
04:30:51
PixieGet half of his [ __ ] Get the house. Get custody of the kids. Let's find what's the exact percentage of alimony again? Sorry. Do most divorces end alimony? Stop. No, let's do it. Let's Google it. You're not listening to the rest of it.
04:31:02
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] the alimony. Then we'll just say [ __ ] the alimony. She can end up with half of everything. She could get the house primarily, get full custody of his children, then who gives a [ __ ] His child support is supporting her even
04:31:14
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] then. And that is most of the ways that divorces go. He's taking a greater risk than she is, even if she's sitting her [ __ ] ass on at home. Because if she's
04:31:25
Andrew Wilsonunemployed, the court's going to award her her child support from the man. So, he's going to support the child. Yeah, but it goes to supporting her ass most of the time. Let's not kid ourselves.
04:31:37
PixieI'm not kidding myself. Most of the time it it is supposed to go to support the child. I know what it's supposed to go to. That doesn't mean that's what it goes to. Also, do what is it? I I think you believe the courts enforce like child support more than they actually do.
04:31:51
PixieLike, no, I I definitely don't. No way if you decide to run off in the middle of the night and go to a [ __ ] different state that she's going to even have the monetary or legal resources to hunt your ass down.
04:32:03
Brian AtlasI I'm sorry. I do have to I do want to come in on this so a woman can just go to the department of uh got to be a neutral moderator here, Brian. Let me finish up. Yeah. Yeah. Be
04:32:14
Andrew Wilsonneutral. I I like I like beating the tar out of people in debates, but it has to be fair. That's my rule. So So back to Well, I was just clarifying a point. Yeah. But back to this, right? Yes,
04:32:25
Andrew Wilsoneasily she can be awarded with all of this. And often they are. More often than not, they're awarded with this, especially if they have no income. Then the court looks at it and says the the children need to have some type of equal
04:32:37
Andrew Wilsonlife in both homes. So you need to compensate to make sure that they have that life over there. What is she losing here? In fact, she has an incentive to get divorced and go with a new man because now she cannot report his income
04:32:49
Pixietaken care of her plus gets his income. I'm sorry. Most women who women Yeah, most women we can and we could search it up right now. Just Google it. Honestly, um, search up their economic status before and after divorce, please.
04:33:01
PixieHow many of them are more financially off better being single mamas? The vast majority are not better off. That's just it. Like, it doesn't So what? So what? So the fact is this picture that you're painting that women are
04:33:15
Andrew Wilsonlike, you know, divorcing their husbands. Prove to me that they're worse off when they're in their 30s and get a divorce than when they were married at 20. Prove that to me. Prove that to me that at 30 they're
04:33:26
Andrew Wilsonworse off than when they were in 20 when they got married. I think they're better off still. They may not have had as good of a life as they had when they were married, but they chose the [ __ ] divorce. Economically speaking, economically speaking, at 30, I
04:33:40
Andrew Wilsonguarantee you that they're doing a lot better than they were at 20, even if they're [ __ ] divorced. So that argument is moot. It means nothing. It doesn't even make sense. You're saying what is it compar Well, first of all, I don't think anybody's doing very well if they're getting
04:33:52
Pixiemarried in their 20s, generally speaking. Um, right. Huh. Yeah. Yeah. No, agreed. So, what is it? I'm 99% sure, and we can like find out right now.
04:34:03
PixieUm, most women end up Yeah. They end up in a lower socioeconomic bracket after they divorce than before they divorce. Yeah. It doesn't mean that their socioeconomic bracket still isn't higher than it would have ordinarily have been had they not been married. Yeah, I don't think that's true.
04:34:18
Andrew WilsonProve it. Let's find out. Like, can we Google right now? Honestly, prove that they leave. Look it up. Prove it. Prove that they go into the marriage at a higher socioeconomic status than when they leave. I would love to see that demonstrate.
04:34:28
Brian AtlasHow about this? While she's looking that up, we do have a super chat. Paul Jame, she she sounds so wild. You sound like the vice. I can imagine can be an un
04:34:40
Brian Atlaswait what? Oh, the vice president I can imagine can be wait an unbburden. What has been but can be unburdened by what has been but there are those still unburdened
04:34:54
Brian Atlasword. Uh Paul Jame, thanks for the super chat, man. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Even though I didn't really understand it, I still appre still appreciate it. Thank you, man. And then we do have I'm going to let these uh there's some TTS's that were
04:35:07
Brian AtlasYeah, we got to wrap the debate anyway. Yeah, we're going to wrap up here soon. Guys, if you want the TTS has been dropped to $69 unless you guys want to do a 10-minute roast session. We'll do do the 10-minute roast. Okay, we'll do one more thing. Then we
04:35:19
TTS/Donationscan go to roast session. You're saying before marriage and after marriage. Hold on. Just let these come through real quick. 69 donated $6969. Hi, Andrew. How are you today, man?
04:35:31
TTS/DonationsGood. Hey, Pixie on board. I was wondering, do you want to daily talk on Instagram and get helpful texts by me? I give you 69. Oo 304. Uh, Pixie, did you hear that?
04:35:43
TTS/DonationsWhat did you say? Uh, do you want to talk on Instagram with this guy? Jess Gerald donated $69. Hey, Gerald, good to see you in chat. I thought running wheelb barrels of
04:35:54
Brian Atlasconcrete for 12 hours was difficult. Well put, Gerald. Sorry that it it took us a little while to get to these. They came in about 15 minutes ago. I just wanted to pause it to allow the uh
04:36:06
Brian Atlasconversation to flow. Gerald, thank you for the TTS. Much appreciated. Pixie, any response to 69? He's wants to talk daily on Instagram. Yes or no? Uh-uh. Neither yes or no. No.
04:36:17
TTS/DonationsOkay. Just once a week then. Jess Gerald donated $100. And I thought running wheelbarrows of concrete for 12 hours was rough. There it is again. Gerald, thank you for the TTS. Appreciate it. Yeah. No, listen. Listen.
04:36:30
Andrew WilsonOh wow. It's not okay. House work. Six hours of it per day on your heaviest day is you and your [ __ ] stupid concrete. Bro, you need You know what, dude? Why don't
04:36:41
Andrew Wilsonyou just stop being such a little [ __ ] Go do some housework for 6 hours a day on your heaviest day. That will teach you the value of real work, sir. That is
04:36:50
TTS/Donationsthe value of real work. Ulyses the pagan donated $69. I'm machinist at a heat treatment plant working 12-hour shifts five days a week
04:37:01
TTS/Donationsand overtime. My wife is stay at home happy and has a beer ready for me. She's not Serbian, just grateful, I heard. Yeah, but dude, okay, listen, Ulysus, you're [ __ ] ridiculous. Okay, just
04:37:13
Andrew Wilsonbecause you work way more than 40 hours a week, like every other [ __ ] working-class man who has a family that I'm aware of at the moment, doesn't mean that your contribution is nearly as much as it is from 6 hours of daily housework. Why don't you get your [ __ ]
04:37:26
Brian Atlastogether, bro? Get your [ __ ] [ __ ] together. What the hell is wrong with you? Oh, last thing. The poll, I think it we ended it, it had about 200 votes. It was
04:37:38
Andrew Wilson91 to9%. Or sorry, 91 to 9%. Bias. Very, very I mean, it's sample selection of men. I'm sure that all of
04:37:49
Pixiethem are lying about their preferences. I'm not even going to get into sample selection, but I do want to mention um when you were earlier stating, oh,
04:37:59
Pixieyou have to compare it before marriage versus after marriage, you also have to compare it to what would the woman have been making if she did not stay at home. Yeah. But that's a subjective metric.
04:38:12
Andrew WilsonThat's not a subjective metric. Yeah, it is. So the thing is like these chicks are getting married at as [ __ ] baristas and then they go but I had a dream to be an astronaut. It doesn't mean [ __ ] The vast majority are getting married
04:38:24
Andrew Wilsonwithin like essentially they're so No, most of them are getting married at [ __ ] 30 and have hopped between 20 [ __ ] jobs in their life. You [ __ ] kidding me? Are most people wait most people get married in their 30s. Okay. Yes. I thought you said most people I thought you were saying like
04:38:37
Andrew Wilsonand guess what? They've jumped 20 [ __ ] jobs before they got married. Usually most of them don't even have stable [ __ ] linear careers. So what are you talking about? They're still making cash versus if they just stayed at home. Yeah, but you said that hard to
04:38:50
Andrew Wilsonunderstand. Because that cash offset, they would be spending it anyway. And in this case, the man is taking care of that same cash they would have been spending. We're saying they would be making more cash.
04:39:03
PixieProve it. Prove it. Prove that they would have been Prove that the [ __ ] barista would have been making more cash than the [ __ ] machinist. Okay. You all you have to do is like literally compare women who decide to stay at home
04:39:14
Andrew Wilsonversus women who just continue to get a career and then also had children. Yes. But you're not offsetting it with what they normally would have to spend on themselves. So what I'm saying is is that it's great income household. My
04:39:26
Andrew Wilsonturn. No. No. No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. So if you're a barista, okay, and you're pulling in, I don't know, 14 bucks an hour or something like this, you agree with me that you have to pay your living expenses. Okay.
04:39:39
Andrew WilsonStop. Yeah, I I I'm not disagreeing with any of that. Sure. Yes. I'm going to walk you through it and then I'll go through your [ __ ] Okay. But you can't spur and just go I don't want to talk about this. So, uh you agree that they're going to have to pay their living expenses, their
04:39:51
Andrew Wilsonheating cost, their car care cost, their gasoline. They're going to have to pay for all of that [ __ ] Right. Sure. All of it. How much money do you think that the average [ __ ] woman has in her savings account after she pays her own expenses?
04:40:04
Andrew WilsonTell me. Almost none of them have any. Almost none of them have a savings account at all. So if that is the case that most women don't even [ __ ] have a savings account cuz they don't cuz they don't
04:40:15
Andrew Wilsonneither do most men. Most Americans pay to paycheck. Guess what? That's very helpful to my argument and not yours. If most people don't have a savings account, then that means that they're
04:40:25
Andrew Wilsonspending all of that money on just living expenses and the expenses of being [ __ ] alive. So if that is the case, then if the man is taking care of her this entire time, all of her living
04:40:38
Pixieexpenses, the thing she would have been spending that other money on without the savings account are being accommodated. What point of it's her money that you don't understand. It's still her money. They're married.
04:40:50
PixieNo, it's not because when it's a guy again, as we've stated before, if something happens to him or if something malicious happens to him, she is then monetarily [ __ ] Yeah. So would he be? No, he'd be a lot less [ __ ] He's like
04:41:05
Pixiehas If she divorces him, takes half his [ __ ] Again, as we've stated before, most of these women after they divorce are in a lower socioeconomic bracket. So she's not maintaining. Let me finish.
04:41:17
PixieLet me finish. That's obuscating. You're obuscating the point. Absolutely. 100%. You got to do the L thing when you do that. You are You are obuscating the point because the point Yes. The point is that
04:41:28
Pixieif they are what is it giving up their ability to work for the past 10 years they're and now they're in a worse economic socio position because of the divorce socio economic position. Yeah. They're not going to be able to
04:41:41
Pixiecontinue that same lifestyle as before versus if they continue to work and then you know got divorced. Okay. Now they're still around the same level. They still have that same experience.
04:41:51
Andrew WilsonThey are not relying just on you know childare. they hop from 10 jobs to they would have hopped to 20 jobs and still not had a savings account and still not had they would still be able to be in the workforce. They don't lose that. They still could be in the workforce.
04:42:04
PixieThey go back to work. It's going to be you. Okay. I don't know when what reality you live in where an employer looks at a 10-year gap on a resume and says, "You know what? You should get paid just as much as this person who worked 10 years." This is an
04:42:17
Andrew Wilsonunfortunate argument that you and progressives make all the time, but an employer would actually rather look at a 10-year gap in employment history than see that you job hopped [ __ ] nine times in the last 10 years. I'm sorry. It is true.
04:42:28
PixieNo, look at the number one to raise way to raise. Look at the number one way to raise salaries. I'm sorry. It's job hopping. That's why people do it. Guess what? That is true. But you know what? Do not prefer
04:42:39
Andrew Wilsonbecause employers because employers need bodies. And so when you need bodies, you don't have a labor force which can accommodate bodies. You'll hire [ __ ] anybody regardless of their work history. Let me finish. I just let you go through your spiel.
04:42:52
Andrew WilsonOkay. So again, if you have a labor shortage, sure, you can do all the job hopping you want cuz people are so desperate for bodies. But the same would be true for a woman who hadn't worked for 10 years as it would be for a woman who job hops
04:43:04
Andrew Wilsonevery 6 months. Do you think an employer, for instance, likes to look at your resume and see that in 6 months the chances that you're going to leave the company are almost 100%. Probably not.
04:43:15
Andrew WilsonSame thing. They look on the other hand and see, oh, 10 year age or 10 year gap in employment history because I was a stay-at-home mom. They would probably prefer that. Yes. Absolutely not. Absolutely. What they
04:43:26
Andrew Wilsonlook at is, oh, you're a hot commodity or whatever. Look at your experience. We want to take you away from your not even in the same fields. When you said the job hopping, when you said job hopping, usually people the way that you make the
04:43:39
Andrew Wilsonhigher. No, they don't. Yes, they do. No, they don't. Okay. Most people are not going from astrophysics to the barista or the other way around. Well, most people aren't going to astrophysics, nothing. But the biggest increase in salary from job hopping is
04:43:51
Pixiewhen you switch careers. So careers switching and changing number one indicator for making a lot more money. Careers within the same bracket going from what is it doing? Yeah, as I
04:44:03
Pixiestated before, [ __ ] astrophysics to law. What usually happens is maybe I start as a [ __ ] parallegal or whatever, get my law degree, and then I technically switch jobs to an attorney. Common people.
04:44:16
Andrew WilsonYeah. Okay. Either either way. Here's what's common. Here's what's common. Okay. You're right. You know what? You're right. You're not going to jump. Most people are not going from teacher. You know what? You're not going to jump
04:44:27
Andrew Wilsonfrom your [ __ ] entrylevel ass position at the Arby's to the entry ass position at the In-N-Out, right? Both of those positions, one pays in and out,
04:44:37
Andrew Wilsonlet's say 20 bucks an hour, and your [ __ ] Arby's job paid $9.50 an hour. I guess technically you're in the same field. But the truth is is it's a mass career change cuz everything you're
04:44:48
Andrew Wilsondoing within that job capacity totally [ __ ] different than anything you did. But the other thing is is when you're talking about fields, if you're just talking about sales, for instance, okay, is sales dynamically going to change?
04:44:59
Andrew WilsonYou think in the 10 years that you're a housewife? Is is the mechanism for sales going to change? If you could sell h uh houses or you could sell cars or you could sell any of those things before. Could you just not suddenly do that now?
04:45:12
PixieIt's just not within your purview. If I'm going to hire someone, I'm going to obviously hire somebody who has more experience in sales than somebody who doesn't. Even if they job hoped 6 months ago, it means that that's a really stupid. Why would you want to ask?
04:45:24
Andrew WilsonMost people are most people don't want to take somebody in the labor force for 10 years. When there wasn't a labor shortage, the number one indicator that you weren't going to be employed was job hopping. Number one indicator.
04:45:36
Andrew WilsonLet's find it. I'm curious. You can pull it up. Cuz I'd be surprised if it wasn't previous unemployment. Look under the Obama era, especially when you had a a huge lack of jobs. Number one indicator you weren't going
04:45:49
TTS/Donationsto get employed, job hopping. Do you guys you want to look that up? I'll let some TTS's come through. How about that? The blind archer donated $69. Women have 44% less save than me. That's right.
04:46:01
TTS/DonationsI think Pixie can agree. At this point, she's not debating on logic anymore, but emotion and nuance. I'm not. Do you concur? No, I don't concur. She does not concur. Thank you, Blind Archer. We'll just let
04:46:14
Brian Atlasthe ones that are going to come through. Agree. Yeah, we're going to wrap. Yeah, we're almost done. We're going to wrap soon. We'll let these come through. They'll be donated $69. I'm a structural welder at a very
04:46:26
TTS/Donationsprestigious naval shipyard, building submarines 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. I live alone and it takes max 3 hours to do housework and cook. It's called multitasking. No, no, no. It's the hardest job in the
04:46:37
Andrew Wilsonworld, bro. That's it's so it's super difficult. 6 hours a day, 4 hours of no nothing to do. It's If you guys want to turn now,
04:46:48
Andrew Wilsonthis chick makes Desiree from yesterday look smart. No, I wouldn't say that. No, she's had she's had some good solid debate points, I thought, tonight. Mhm. That were worth contending with and
04:47:01
Andrew Wilsonarguing about. Mhm. I don't think Pixie stupid, annoying, and does the triangle thing a lot, but but yeah, not stupid. I feel the same way, Andrew.
04:47:13
Brian AtlasThe chat donated $69. How about you don't get divorced? Thank you, the chat. Appreciate it. Really quick guys, also
04:47:25
Brian Atlasgo to twitch.tv whatever. I'm not able to pull it up. Nick had to uh leave twitch.tv whatever. We are uh simal casting over there. Drop us a follow on the prime sub
04:47:36
TTS/Donationsif you guys. Thank you. Read your Bible. Donated $69. Matthew 5:37. Let what you say be simply yes or no. Anything more than this comes from evil one.
04:47:48
Brian AtlasAll right. Read your Bible. Appreciate the TTS. very much appreciated. We have uh five more. We got five more chats coming in if you guys want. The TTS has been lowered to $30. $30 TTS. Streamlabs.com/ whatever if you
04:48:02
TTS/Donationswant to get them in. Intel Wild donated $30. Where is Maddie to read these super chats? Brian is cutting his staff like California fast food businesses are doing. Fu knew some
04:48:14
Brian Atlasuh she's just uh I think she went out of town. She'll be back. Catholic donated $30. Pixie, I wish you were as right as you are passionate. I was a progressive idiot and am now a track Catholic
04:48:26
TTS/Donationsbecause I started reading factual literature. Read from the Austrian School of Economics. No. Is fair, huh? Raph PSA donated $69.
04:48:38
TTS/DonationsSee, you presented yourself well, even if I disagree with a lot of what you speak on. Debates like this are needed. Good on both of you. enjoyed it. Will she be doing verbal combat course?
04:48:50
PixieShe needs it. But the big the big thing the big thing is is um just don't scream as much. It hurts my face. Just don't scream as much. Sorry. It's the Hispanic in me. That's
04:49:00
TTS/Donationsone stereotype I can adhere to. Leism too donated $30. Brixian. And as a 50th percentile man, this scares TF out me. No wonder 20% to 40% of men have checked out. Women like she is the
04:49:13
TTS/Donationsreason why looser men are turning to eomel/red pill ideology. GGWP West H. All right, Leo, thank you for the TTS
04:49:24
TTS/Donationsthere. Uh, appreciate it. Juapose03 donated $69. Pixie, feel the room closing in on you? That's the feeling of getting cornered
04:49:35
Andrew Wilsonideologically by your own circular logic. By the way, how many injuries do stayathome moms get? God bless Andrew. It's pretty rough. Pretty rough for them single stay-at-home mom or for them
04:49:46
Andrew Wilsonstay-at-home moms and injury department sometimes as they get their ass off the couch and they're moving over towards the fridge. They trip, snub their toe. It's a rough life.
04:49:57
TTS/DonationsOptimus Prime girl donated $33. Housework doesn't have to be hard or a burden in order to be important. You're making a point against yourself. Working
04:50:06
TTS/Donationsmoms could never do this if it was that hard. Pixie, no echo today. No echo. Don't know.
04:50:19
Andrew WilsonSorry. I thought there were more. You might you might you might have thought that that was a point for you, but actually he was dunking on you slightly. He was saying, you know, Andrew, you're being too charitable by saying that this is even valuable labor to begin with. If it was actually
04:50:32
Andrew Wilsondifficult, women wouldn't even be able to [ __ ] do it. That's what he's actually saying. That was very cleverly worded, by the way. Very cleverly worded. If you guys want,
04:50:44
Brian Atlasyou can get in your final uh TTS messages before we wrap up here. I'm just going to pause it temporarily to allow uh Pixie and Andrew to make
04:50:56
Brian Atlastheir closing statements. So, if you guys would like, go ahead, make your closing statements. We have Pixie go first and then Well, she went Oh, she went first. So, usually usually the person goes first goes last, right? To
04:51:09
Andrew Wilsonbe like maximum fair. Sure. Sure. Right. Brian's still learning how to do the debate thing. I'm still still learning. All right, Andrew, why don't you uh start with your close? Uh, so first, thank you for coming in. I
04:51:18
Andrew Wilsonreally appreciate it. And in the spirit, good sportsmanship across the table. I appreciate it very much. Um, there was a chick whose hand I wouldn't shake yesterday, so I made sure to shake your
04:51:30
Andrew Wilsonhand because I'm af I was afraid I'd get the same outcome if I didn't. So anyway, so back to the closing statement. We went all over the place this debate. We
04:51:39
Andrew Wilsonwe started with um uh epistemology and foundations of ontology and um it went all over the place when it came to feminism, but I did appreciate the spirited argument back and forth. It was
04:51:51
Andrew Wilsona lot of fun for me cuz I don't get to do it as much as I used to. uh especially with you Twitch poll nerds because uh you guys are fun uh to argue with. Couple of points of contention that we had. Don't think you
04:52:02
Andrew Wilsondemonstrated in any way, shape, or form that feminism is good. Your definition of patriarchy really sucked when it came to status because I was able to demonstrate that women have tons of statuses that men do not. And if the
04:52:15
Andrew Wilsoncase was in the power dynamic, I was able to demonstrate that women have much more power in some of these dynamics than men do. So, I don't think that that was a really good point for you to make. And I thought that got blown out pretty
04:52:26
Andrew Wilsonhard. I thought on the stay-at-home mom, you made the uh valid point of what happens to women though if the marriage goes goes south, right? What is your
04:52:37
Andrew Wilsonanswer to this? I thought that that was a much better portion of the verbal sparring and that your points were a lot more solid there. But going back, circling back to the force doctrine of
04:52:47
Andrew Wilsonmen and women, completely wrecked there. [ __ ] insane take to say in any way, shape, or form that you would invest your life savings in female prison guards, nobody ever going to [ __ ] believe you, including you. No [ __ ]
04:52:58
Andrew Wilsonway. Even if we gave them more accuracy and quicker trigger fingers, you would put everything on men every [ __ ] time. And I wouldn't blame you. Neither would anybody else. Force doctrine does
04:53:09
Andrew Wilsonexist. Your example of force doctrine also sucked from the A to B to C guy. And the reason was is because there was still implicit force there. So, we never were able to demonstrate that women could ever really grasp force doctrine
04:53:21
Andrew Wilsonaway from men. Um, so just like a lot of your arguments, I would probably shore them up, but I thought you did pretty good on the last round, right? I thought that that was some pretty good jousting.
04:53:30
Andrew WilsonRest of the debate, ah, not not not not the greatest points I ever heard, but I do appreciate you being a very spirited interlocutor. So, I'll just yield with that,
04:53:43
PixiePixie. Also, God is real and Christ is God. I just wanted to let you know. So, obviously we disagreed on a lot of stuff. Um, I still don't agree with how
04:53:54
Pixieyou view power in society. Although there is explicit force, I still think that a lot of it is done in ways that are not just brute force. Um, a lot of power in society is wielded through
04:54:06
Pixieessentially social contracts or through indirect force essentially. Um, and can be done by just essentially private
04:54:13
Pixiecontracts to a level. Um, I appreciated our conversation overall. I think um, what is it? Yeah, I'm trying to think about specifics, but honestly, I'm just
04:54:26
Pixievery, very hungry right now, so it's hard. You owe us In-N-Out. I do not think I owe you In-N-Out, but I am going to get pizza afterwards, and we'll treat you guys to a slice if you want. Um,
04:54:40
Brian Atlasa slice. Yes, a slice. A singular singular slice. It'll be a sad slice, too. I'm going to pick the saddest one. Who the [ __ ] eats one slice of pizza? Also, you can't get a salad at the pizza place. Well, you can. It's just like It's just
04:54:52
Pixiea whole tomato with lettuce, though. No. Have you seen that Family Guy? Totally. It's exactly like a head of lettuce. I don't tomatoes. What's your closing? Go. You got to finish your closing. But yeah, I appreciated the
04:55:03
Pixieconversation. I do think you made good points. I am very tired. Um, but thank you so much for being here, for being a good sport. um and for
04:55:15
Andrew Wilsonmaking this a fun time cuz I I'm glad you glad you had a good time. All right, great. We'll allow those I just got a feeling we're going to end up covering dinner though. I just know it. I just [ __ ] know it. Female privilege, Brian.
04:55:28
Andrew WilsonThank you all uh all of you out there and the whatever podcast. I know we weren't able to reream to the Crucible tonight because there was another debate that was going on there that was pres-scheduled. Uh I think Rachel's streaming. Is she was
04:55:40
Andrew Wilsonshe able to? I don't know. under the I I don't know exactly their particulars. I I thought that there was another debate going on there tonight, but I do appreciate everybody in the whatever audience coming out showing support for the stream and of course to the host Brian Atlas for having us moderating his
04:55:54
TTS/Donationsvery kind. Of course, I will allow the last TTS's to flow through and then we will wrap the show with Ghost donated $30. The stayathome mom is getting a salary. It's called her
04:56:05
TTS/Donationshusband's income. Or do you think we don't give our wives money to buy what she needs? Also, life insurance and accident/disability insurance.
04:56:16
TTS/DonationsThe underscorebomb donated $69. Comment on the bomb debate. When asked to join the Manhattan Project, Lisa Miner said, "I will have nothing to do with the bomb. Not a question of capability. Women not inclined to do
04:56:28
Andrew Wilsoncertain things." I would also argue not capable of doing certain things, honestly, but at least not in mass. Devon, really appreciate your TTS. Thank you.
04:56:40
TTS/DonationsTried Catholic Spud donated $30. I hope that Theoccus will guide you away from the progressive crowd. Thank you both for being respectful. I am happy to see you both speak in a relatively cordial
04:56:51
Unknown/Ambientmanner. God bless to you all. In donated her voice is extremely annoying, but Pixie, please stay away from the
04:57:02
Unknown/Ambientbluehaired Kumar Gambling C guy named Destiny. Ah, Intel Wild. Thank you for that. Roman Hispanic donated $30. We was job
04:57:13
Unknown/Ambienthoppers and shi it working as baristas and shi it making cash and sh by the way. Nice haircut, Andrew. I didn't get a haircut. Oh, you just haven't seen my flowing in
04:57:26
Brian Atlasperson in a while. Imagine being a parental engineer. W Andrew W. Brixen 07 to the both of you. 07. Thank you, Nemesis. Good to see you in the chat. That's one of our mods. Shout out to Nemesis. Thank you, man.
04:57:40
Unknown/AmbientAppreciate it. Walsh, she donated $30. The wine drunk housewife meme is a meme for a reason. Love you, Andrew, but I had a manager who was married to a billionaire's ugly daughter and would cheat all the time. Make divorce shamed again.
04:57:52
Andrew WilsonHey, pointing to the outlier doesn't make it true. 30 donated $30.69. No offensive, but see you ugly 304. I'm not sure why you have an ego. You are nothing except one night stand anyway.
04:58:05
Unknown/Ambient6969. 6969 free and tate. Hey husband and father donated dollar. I am venturing I guess that a lot of men